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  1. #21
    Senior Member Motor Jax's Avatar
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    i get told i am pretty defensive also

    even worse when it is a certain person is involved also

  2. #22
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    i get told i'm sassy and catty
    is defensiveness the same thing ?
    I N V I C T U S

  3. #23
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    My room mate does this a lot and won't listen to my arguments just dismiss them. If I can get her to listen I can usually get her to see my POV using logic based on my observations in the world.
    On what basis do you judge that she's not listening to your arguments?

    Based on your words here, I wonder if judgement of someone having listened to you only comes once they express agreement with your POV.

    Also she tends to give me advice on how to do something and she thinks just because it will work for her means it will work for me.
    I'm sorry for this experience. I respond poorly to others forcing their experience on me as well.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  4. #24
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    On what basis do you judge that she's not listening to your arguments?

    Based on your words here, I wonder if judgement of someone having listened to you only comes once they express agreement with your POV.
    That's not the case at all. I'm not asking her to agree, it's just I feel like she shuts me off before I have the chance to explain. I listen, if anything that's my flaw, I'm too willing to listen to other people even if I think they're full of shit, I just want the same, I mean I could be full of shit but let me realize that in my own time.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #25
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karenk View Post
    I'm wondering how other INFJs deal with becoming defensive like described in the original post. Once I feel very hurt by someone I can't really get rid of the defensiveness with that particular person. A wall just goes up and that's it. It's definitely a hindrance in developing relationships.
    My walls go up quickly and usually come down just as quickly.

    I've never had a situation where they haven't come down again, but the more often my wall-building is triggered with a person, the more quickly the walls go up and the more difficult they are to dismantle.

    I've learned to consciously keep myself open more often though. I choose to remain open to the vulnerability and humanness of the person I'm interacting with and accept their expression as presented as much as I can, even when I feel uncomfortable or vulnerable in it.

    I'm not always successful and sometimes it's ill-advised to remain that open for protective reasons, but I think perhaps my own trigger for self-protection is more sensitive than the actual threat present in my environment would warrant.

    I'm stronger than I think, even without the defensive walls.

    But mostly I'm still a wall-builder. I'm just getting better at quickly tearing them down.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  6. #26
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    That's not the case at all. I'm not asking her to agree, it's just I feel like she shuts me off before I have the chance to explain. I listen, if anything that's my flaw, I'm too willing to listen to other people even if I think they're full of shit, I just want the same, I mean I could be full of shit but let me realize that in my own time.

    So then, on what basis do you judge you've not been listened to?
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  7. #27
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    So then, on what basis do you judge you've not been listened to?
    I get interupted/ cut off.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #28
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I get interupted/ cut off.
    That would be frustrating. I'm learning that no matter how you are experiencing someone's expression internally, they are most able to understand you as having received them if you respond and relay back to them in some form what you've heard. I am truly sorry that your expression is meeting with that kind of rebuttal. It must feel like a rejection of sorts.

    I'm guessing based on my own self-awareness, that for some reason your roommate feels threatened by your expression, and likely because of her own vulnerability to other's perspectives, feels it necessary to cut your expression off before it can affect her. I could be wrong, but when I've personally behaved in a way that cut off other's expression before they could even fully express that was what was going on inside me.

    I hope that maybe my offer of personal experience can offer you something to understand her vulnerabilities a bit better and not take her rejection of your expression personally, but rather see it as an expression of her own vulnerability.

    In any case, I'm sorry for your experience. I've been on the other side of not having my expression received and it feels awful.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  9. #29
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    That would be frustrating. I'm learning that no matter how you are experiencing someone's expression internally, they are most able to understand you as having received them if you respond and relay back to them in some form what you've heard. I am truly sorry that your expression is meeting with that kind of rebuttal. It must feel like a rejection of sorts.

    I'm guessing based on my own self-awareness, that for some reason your roommate feels threatened by your expression, and likely because of her own vulnerability to other's perspectives, feels it necessary to cut your expression off before it can affect her. I could be wrong, but when I've personally behaved in a way that cut off other's expression before they could even fully express that was what was going on inside me.

    I hope that maybe my offer of personal experience can offer you something to understand her vulnerabilities a bit better and not take her rejection of your expression personally, but rather see it as an expression of her own vulnerability.

    In any case, I'm sorry for your experience. I've been on the other side of not having my expression received and it feels awful.
    Though I remember one time I told her that if I ever fell from a high place I'd imagine the ground was rubber and she just laughed and said I was crazy and no one else would think that.And then I wanted to explain myself she told me to be quiet. Later on I was able to explain how i came to this conclusion.(Like 3-4 hours later)
    1.)The whole idea of mind over matter maybe I could convince myself it doesn't hurt too bad.
    2.)If it does hurt, it will be so much worse making me angrier and therefore giving me the motivation to hang on to life and go after the person whose fault it was. Besides I'd probably end up being to lazy to do anything really but I will get to live so I win. It's like when you take a sip of coffee expecting it to be hot chocolate.

    I don't know if she was humoring me or what but once I explained myself she said that it actually made sense.

    So maybe when I say what seems totally random to others even though I've been thinking about it for days even weeks. I need to give the other person time to process.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  10. #30
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karenk View Post
    I'm wondering how other INFJs deal with becoming defensive like described in the original post. Once I feel very hurt by someone I can't really get rid of the defensiveness with that particular person. A wall just goes up and that's it. It's definitely a hindrance in developing relationships.
    It really depends on context with me.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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