[MBTI General] Turn it around with an SF?

[lookoutbelow84093]

Hey all. I somehow end up dating SFs quite a bit and a recent problem with one xSFP got me thinking. This last one I think thinks im clingy. She was having a tough time with life and I was trying to be there for her and help her out. Looking back I can see how it would come off as "clingy" or "needy" and im actually kind of angry about it because thats just not me. Any way to turn this type of interaction around? When a female sees a guy in a certain way is there a way to undo that?

 

[wedekit]

I'm not sure if you're asking the question because you want to continue dating the mentioned girl or if it's just for future reference. I'm guessing you're an NF since your posting on this forum. Though I can't personally judge how accurate this website is, this could be potentially useful: (From (NF)Empathist & (SP)Realist)

" Life with the REALIST may be a totally draining experience for the EMPATHIST. The REALIST simply has no understanding of the EMPATHIST's needs for connection, harmony, appreciation and attention, and without intending to do so the REALIST may continually tread on the EMPATHIST's tender feelings.
The EMPATHIST may give the REALIST a feeling of a straitjacket or a noose around the neck: cramping, stifling, suffocating, inhibiting movement and freedom.
Day in and day out, the EMPATHIST may complain of hurt feelings and criticize the REALIST for lacking sensitivity, especially if the REALIST is a thinker-type. The REALIST usually will try to ignore the criticism for as long as possible. Then the REALIST may simply leave. Conflict is wearing and draining to REALISTs, and given a chance they'll avoid it at all costs."

 

[heart]

When a female sees a guy in a certain way is there a way to undo that?

Find someone else who appreciates how emotionally avaliable you are.

 

[lookoutbelow84093]

Yeah would love to salvage ths one but seems beyond repair to me. More for future reference.

 

[lookoutbelow84093]

Oops and sorry im an INFP

 

[heart]

Yeah would love to salvage ths one but seems beyond repair to me. More for future reference.

It just sounds like you would have to supress so much to continue on.

I married an INFJ and dating was great, so much emotional closeness and being able to be as "clingy" as I wanted to be without being made to feel there was anything wrong with it and that the other person actually wanted that much closeness! Yet at times he can be too emotionally distant for me when he is under stress in recent years.

So I cannot imagine how something like that works out when the person starts out being too distant from the get go. I just think better to strike as close as possible to what your ideal is while dating and then will weather life's unexpected daggers a lot better.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Why would someone think you're needy if you're actually not needy?

 

[Eileen]

I dislike the terms "clingy" and "needy" because they're really quite invalidating. "Distant" is also bad. They are relative terms, of course, but they invalidate genuine needs for emotional availability (in the case of "clingy") and space (in the case of "distant"). A person's needs shouldn't be a problem in a healthy relationship. The problem is, these things are so rarely addressed before they come irreparable. It's a pity that we have to learn from our mistakes... but I think that it would be better if the mistake were recognized as a mistake in communication and reciprocating one another's needs rather than a deficiency in ourselves.

 

[heart]

Why would someone think you're needy if you're actually not needy?

Because they desire a different level of emotional interaction?

We have a ESTJ-ISTJ couple in our family who are always telling me and my husband that we are "unhealthily" bonded and spend too much time together!

 

[lookoutbelow84093]

Honestly im angry because I think it was just a lack of experience/understanding in my most recent relationship. I could see she was struggling with school and I wanted to be there for her. I thought SHE needed more attention so I tried to give it and that is what pushed her away... Thats why I think she sees me as "clingy." So seems as if there is some debate thought whether NFPs and SFPs can have a good relationship.

 

[disregard]

What Eileen said--the terms "clingy" and "needy" are invalidating. They are offensive. And they forge gaps where understanding could be fostered.

Edit: But I have used those words before.. and when I did, I did not like the person AT ALL. If I were friends with this person, I would be rightfully offended, and reconsider my investment in them.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I dislike the terms "clingy" and "needy" because they're really quite invalidating. "Distant" is also bad. They are relative terms, of course, but they invalidate genuine needs for emotional availability (in the case of "clingy") and space (in the case of "distant"). A person's needs shouldn't be a problem in a healthy relationship. The problem is, these things are so rarely addressed before they come irreparable. It's a pity that we have to learn from our mistakes... but I think that it would be better if the mistake were recognized as a mistake in communication and reciprocating one another's needs rather than a deficiency in ourselves.

Because they desire a different level of emotional interaction?

We have a ESTJ-ISTJ couple in our family who are always telling me and my husband that we are "unhealthily" bonded and spend too much time together!

I dig what you guys are saying about there being two different sets of needs and agree that the label has acquired a very critical and judgmental tone. Maybe the OP doesn't view it as neediness not because he's against the LABEL and its connotations, but because he doesn't think he possesses and exhibits the traits that she's described. That's, at least, what I gathered.

We can just dispose of labels to make it easier and ask:
1) Do you act as though you need excessive validation and reassurance from her?
2) Do you intend to act that way?
3a) If you do act that way, what motivates you to act that way?
3b) If, in your estimation, you don't act that way, or if you don't intend to act that way, what would make her think you need excessive validation and reassurance?

Edit: just read your post.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Honestly im angry because I think it was just a lack of experience/understanding in my most recent relationship. I could see she was struggling with school and I wanted to be there for her. I thought SHE needed more attention so I tried to give it and that is what pushed her away... Thats why I think she sees me as "clingy." So seems as if there is some debate thought whether NFPs and SFPs can have a good relationship.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that with your excessive care and concern, you communicated to her that there was something to be worried about, and instead of calming her down, you made her more worried. She labeled that as "clingy" because she just wasn't able to articulate exactly what was happening. Does that resonate with you at all? I could be off.

 

[wedekit]

A lot of people have a hard time putting themselves in other people's mindset. I would say SP's aren't known for that ability. You have to tell them exactly what is going on. Otherwise, it's your problem. It makes sense if you look at from their view of life.

According to Keirsey, SPs are looking for a playmate; someone to always be on adventure and experience new things with. In contrast, NFs are looking for a soulmate. You can see the obvious contrast in terms there. No relationship is impossible, but I would say that to avoid hurt feelings you should look for people that are more emotionally available; or at least someone who is willing to hear you out. If from the very start you notice that this isn't going to be established, don't lie to yourself and believe that it will. Some people just aren't made to connect that way and it's just a fact of life.

I dated a guy whose needs I couldn't meet and I didn't realize it at the time. He needed someone to constantly tell him how "amazing and talented" he was (typical artist), but I never caught on because he honestly didn't do anything I thought was particularly amazing; or at least so amazing I had to tell him every 1.5 hours. I didn't realize how arrogant he was until we broke up and I stopped putting him up on a pedestal.

 

[illume]

Honestly im angry because I think it was just a lack of experience/understanding in my most recent relationship. I could see she was struggling with school and I wanted to be there for her. I thought SHE needed more attention so I tried to give it and that is what pushed her away... Thats why I think she sees me as "clingy." So seems as if there is some debate thought whether NFPs and SFPs can have a good relationship.

I am middle-aged female ENFP who is married, but before that I went around the block several times with SFP men. In fact I had a very lengthy relationship with an ESFP man. Believe me when I tell you that if you are a typical NF, your soul needs nourishment and it will NOT come from an SFP relationship. They are all about fun and living in the moment. While they can be very loving at times, eventually you will feel the need for so much more. And when you get really intense and feel the need for deep discussion, or are down and out, they will not be there for you. IMO.

 

[lookoutbelow84093]

This is really interesting, thanks for the replies. It also makess me question a lot of things. I think humans all have general basic needs in common, love, security... but I guess I always thought of temparament as something which kind of filtered the way in which you go about achieveing that. Its almost depressing though to see how some other types live life and how INFPs (my type do). Just seems like othre types have a lot less worry and have a lot more fun and gratifying lives

 

[chris1207]

It's ok look out below I'm sure that your gf has to worry about STD's harlots that SPs are.

You should find an ENFJ or ENTJ broad btw. That would probably be your best match according to Keirsey.

 

[lookoutbelow84093]

Oh edahn sorry Imissed that post. It sort of does sound familiar. Actually had fun with her a lot. What I liked about it was that it was straightforward fun thats outside of my normal type. Opens up a bit of new worlds to me. Just in the moment kind of stuff. But your description does sound a little familiar.

 

[batumi]

Hey all. I somehow end up dating SFs quite a bit and a recent problem with one xSFP got me thinking. This last one I think thinks im clingy. She was having a tough time with life and I was trying to be there for her and help her out. Looking back I can see how it would come off as "clingy" or "needy" and im actually kind of angry about it because thats just not me. Any way to turn this type of interaction around? When a female sees a guy in a certain way is there a way to undo that?

I really really understand your anger. Perfectly.
I had a very similar situation with an SFJ recently.
Here is what I am doing about it. First, I told the person, because
there is not a lot of time in this friendship yet.....so I was upfront and
made it clear what my reasons were for the emotional giving I felt
that I was doing.
And now I am making space and keeping a small wall in place.
(OK so I'm INFJ, what can I say?)
And after that I am just being comfortable in the knowledge that
I am, generally, a quite well-liked and compassionate person and
most everyone else in my life appreciates me and enjoys me.

There are really just two possibilities here. One - the friendship
will last and the other person will eventually realize what you and
I already know about ourselves - that we are not needy.
Two - the friendship will not last and who cares what they think,
in that case anyway?

But I think you should give it another try if the other person is willing
and see what happens...
And keep in touch if you like.