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  1. #11
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    When or how would Fi or Ti become objective?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    When or how would Fi or Ti become objective?
    Oh, let's say, by reducing a "person" to a "type."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    How can introverted functions be objective?
    How can any function be objective?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    How can any function be objective?
    Heh, I guess she snared me. I answered my own question instead of hers. Of course a function can't be objective, but it can be an objectifying process at times.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Heh, I guess she snared me. I answered my own question instead of hers. Of course a function can't be objective, but it can be an objectifying process at times.
    Well, objectifying something and being objective are two different things
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #16
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Oh, let's say, by reducing a "person" to a "type."
    Still not really following.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    How can any function be objective?
    Well, usually people call objective something that is experienced outside oneself, or can be represented by extraneous variables. Usually subjective is a personal experience from within one's body or psyche. This is the premise I'm using for these terms.

    In applying this to functions, I think that, for example, Te and Fe (and Ne and Se for that matter), are more objective functions, because they exist outside a person. If one uses Ti or Fi, one is thinking or feeling deeply, which is purely subjective. Then, theoretically, Ti or Fi teams up with Se or Ne and a person makes a judgment about something or perceives something. That is my rudimentary understanding of functions.

    I think it's an interesting nuance that Mal brings to light, this. How does this then manifest versus more objective extraverted T and F? What differences are elicited when irrational functions are subjective versus objective, and when rational functions are subjective versus objective. ?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  7. #17
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Well, objectifying something and being objective are two different things
    Of course, but labeling functions "objective" and "subjective" has its uses beyond getting caught up in semantics.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #18
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    So I gather up Fe in the world and I drop it in my big Ni vat and it gets coated with my subjectivity. Everywhere and everything that has made my Ni what it is, coats the Fe, giving it my own personal flavor and style.

    Take Si/Fe and you get a whole 'nuther kind of Fe.

    If we could visualize Fe at work in the world, we'd all have the Universal Objective Fe definition which every 10 threads tries to explain. But we don't. We have subjective irrational functions personalizing them, making them completely unique. Not only between different Fe types of users, but intratype as well.


    Interesting jag. Thanks.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #19
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Still not really following.



    Well, usually people call objective something that is experienced outside oneself, or can be represented by extraneous variables. Usually subjective is a personal experience from within one's body or psyche. This is the premise I'm using for these terms.

    In applying this to functions, I think that, for example, Te and Fe (and Ne and Se for that matter), are more objective functions, because they exist outside a person. If one uses Ti or Fi, one is thinking or feeling deeply, which is purely subjective. Then, theoretically, Ti or Fi teams up with Se or Ne and a person makes a judgment about something or perceives something. That is my rudimentary understanding of functions.

    I think it's an interesting nuance that Mal brings to light, this. How does this then manifest versus more objective extraverted T and F? What differences are elicited when irrational functions are subjective versus objective, and when rational functions are subjective versus objective. ?
    Well i see objectivity being seeing something as it is and subjectivity being seeing only some sides of it.

    People are unable to see anything as they really are, because to see something as it is, you would have to see EVERYTHING in it and its impossible to not put some sort of subjective view on it. For example if you look at a ball, you can see, yes its a ball, but thats not all there is, the ball is made of molecules that you cant see(and we could take this to quantum physics level also). At the point where you say that molecular structure or the working of quantum mechanics of the ball is irrelevant to the ball, you are taking a subjective view on the ball.
    Not to mention when we see a ball, we are inserting our own understanding of what the ball is, how we feel about balls etc, that cant be taken away, thus preventing us to be objective about the ball.

    In conclusion, people are always subjective and unable of being objective about anything.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #20
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Of course, but labeling functions "objective" and "subjective" has its uses beyond getting caught up in semantics.
    Objective and subjective as terms for functions are pretty crappy imo, since they arent really displaying the true nature of the functions and are misleading. That is unless you do it like jung and redefine subjectivity and objectivity. But if you do that, then you have to explain the definitions for subjectivity and objectivity and people who want the dummy version of MBTI arent willing to go that deep..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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