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  1. #1
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Default Any INFJs who think Fe is "fake"?

    Sorry to start another thread with "Fe" and "fake" in the title, but I've been wondering about this.

    If you're INFJ and you think Fe/trying not to make others feeling uncomfortable with your emotional states is "fake" - does that mean you're not really INFJ?

    I don't mean things like being smarmy and sucking up to someone you secretly despise; or overly-fawning customer service, or anything like that. I'm talking more about civility to those you're not crazy about, and not constantly showing your emotional states to everyone regardless of whether the other person is capable of taking them on or not.

    I ask because I know a couple of people who say they identify with the INFJ type, but I'm pretty sure they're respectively INFP and xNFP (either withdrawn ENFP, or outgoing INFP.) There are other indicators that I would think indicate they're Fi users rather than Fe, but this is a big one. They have both used the words "fake" in reference simply to being nice to people they aren't crazy about, and restraining emotional intensity in certain situations.

    For example: I say "A lot of people find it difficult to be around emotional negativity and dark intensity a lot, so I find that being like that most or all of the time tends to push people away." INFP: "Oh, so I should just be completely fake then?" (Admittedly, regardless of type, neither of them are particularly stable - they would even say that themselves.)

    Is it possible to be an Fe user and still think that non-total-emotional-disclosure is "fake"?
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    I'm an infj and I think my Fe is fake.

  3. #3
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I think the op has an intresting question and am looking forward to the responses.

    Here is one other thing I thought about: you said that Fe users for example dont show feelings to other people, because they want to protect them or any other reason. I can agree on that. But wouldnt be, just per definition, the Fi user be the one to show even less feelings to others out of no reason ( because per definition his expression of feelings is introverted ) ?

    That means, while the Fe user is aware of his feelings and able to express them, he doesnt do that due to certain motives.
    While the Fi user cant be assumed at all to show his feelings or be even aware of them him- / herself in certain situations.

    I can understand that Fe people are angered by Fi people, who can have the habit to appear like they lack some respect in certain conversations. I dont think thats automatically something related to a "social norm", I think even without a social norm, you'ld have such feelings and misunderstandings between Fe and Fi people.

    But, and thats what I want to say here: I dont know if its the right thing to accuse Fe people on holding back certain emotions, while Fi people would be naturals in doing so. At least according to definition. I tho do not know if that definition applies to reality, its just some basic logical game playing around with the definitions.

    That all being said in the light of "Fe" and "fake" in thread titles
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  4. #4
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I think the op has an intresting question and am looking forward to the responses.

    Here is one other thing I thought about: you said that Fe users for example dont show feelings to other people, because they want to protect them or any other reason. I can agree on that. But wouldnt be, just per definition, the Fi user be the one to show even less feelings to others out of no reason ( because per definition his expression of feelings is introverted ) ?

    That means, while the Fe user is aware of his feelings and able to express them, he doesnt do that due to certain motives.
    While the Fi user cant be assumed at all to show his feelings or be even aware of them him- / herself in certain situations.

    I can understand that Fe people are angered by Fi people, who can have the habit to appear like they lack some respect in certain conversations. I dont think thats automatically something related to a "social norm", I think even without a social norm, you'ld have such feelings and misunderstandings between Fe and Fi people.

    But, and thats what I want to say here: I dont know if its the right thing to accuse Fe people on holding back certain emotions, while Fi people would be naturals in doing so. At least according to definition. I tho do not know if that definition applies to reality, its just some basic logical game playing around with the definitions.

    That all being said in the light of "Fe" and "fake" in thread titles
    To be fair: I'm probably really talking about "unhealthy Fi" here (if it is indeed Fi!). These are two people who I'm very fond of, but they have not been in very good emotional states most of the time I've known them.

    My take on "unhealthy" Fi would be: insistence on "honestly" vomiting your emotions everywhere regardless of how it makes others feel; and "unhealthy" Fe would be: manipulating left right and centre, and sucking up. But that may be oversimplifying. It just seems to me more that these people are using "unhealthy Fi" than any kind of Fe.


    EDIT: I don't feel I have a great grasp of the functions generally, so I welcome debate and efforts to set me straight.
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  5. #5
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Just to add: Fi being "introverted" doesn't necessarily mean that it's less visible, does it?

    Doesn't it mean more that Fi is concentrated on your interior/core self, while Fe is more concentrated on the exterior/others? I don't think that *necessarily* means that Fi would mean the emotions are generally less visible. It's more to do with focus than expression. (?)
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    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    I think it depends on how Fe is manifested. If it is in genuine display of caring and affection, it isn't fake. But when it ends up becoming a mask to cover up one's true emotions (like appearing happy when really feeling sad so then not to disappoint others), it seems less authentic.
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  7. #7
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    I think it depends on how Fe is manifested. If it is in genuine display of caring and affection, it isn't fake. But when it ends up becoming a mask to cover up one's true emotions (like appearing happy when really feeling sad so then not to disappoint others), it seems less authentic.
    Yeah, agreed...up to a point. But as an INFJ, how would you assess it if someone was like "I'm depressed [which she is], and others don't adjust to me [really not true, in my opinion] and what I feel comfortable with, so why should I adjust to them or hide my depressed feelings, at all?"

    It could be that her depression and other emotional issues are skewing everything, but to me this still sounds more like depressed INFP than depressed INFJ. Not sure though. I've seen her in a group being reasonably civil to others, and then when she turns to me her shoulders slump and she looks grim, hostile and depressed. I've asked her about this (because it fills me with dread.) She says something like "well, you know what I'm going through, so if I act cheerful with you, it's totally fake." (since I do know more about what she's going through than a lot of our mutual friends and acquaintances do.) Because I've been busting a gut trying to provide a support (to an unhealthy extent - I've stepped way back and she's been in therapy now), this is obviously exhausting because it's so constant when I'm around her. I've tried to ask her (mostly) gently to think about the effect that it has on my emotions to be trying to support and be cheerful around constant draining negativity, but I think she's too deep in her own stuff to understand.

    Again, though - she's quite young, and she's quite depressed, and those have a lot to do with it. But personally - yes, if I am really down I have good friends I would confide in, who might see me looking/feeling despairing, crying, etc. But I've been depressed, or close to it, and I've still tried to put on a brave front. If I burst into tears in front of someone, or spend an afternoon with them being ultra-gloomy - my inclination is to apologise for inflicting that on them, even if they're totally happy to support me at that difficult time.
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  8. #8
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Just to add: Fi being "introverted" doesn't necessarily mean that it's less visible, does it?

    Doesn't it mean more that Fi is concentrated on your interior/core self, while Fe is more concentrated on the exterior/others? I don't think that *necessarily* means that Fi would mean the emotions are generally less visible. It's more to do with focus than expression. (?)
    Yeah, I have troubles pinpointing that down. It's easier for me, when I put the Feeling functions vis a vis with the thinking functions. If you'ld for example see Fe as Te, its a directive communicative big picture function, which is supposed to manage ethics and to put it into a concept of form. Ti is more of the micromanaging star, who with a more narrow vision than Te emerges deeply into its field ans has a deeper connection to rational truth. While for the Te it could be fun to be the manager of a company, a Ti could think that aint fun, because he is doing something that isnt deeply connected to the inner workings of this world and he'ld prolly settle for nothing less than to work in the field of at least quantumchromodynamics.

    An equal process could be applied to Fe and Fi. While the Fe is the macromanager, Fi has a more narrow focus on one field of ethics / emotional expression / psychology. Or on a lot of small fields.

    In that light, I think by saying "Fe is shallow or fake" you automatically say as well "Fi is not". And thats basically wrong, cause due to the specialized nature of Fi it is shallow like Fe, just in another way.

    This prolly way of topic by now, it's just always a pain in my mind when I read people asserting fake with Fe. Because imo we are all fakers to some degree and to some degree we are not and that one who is free of guilt may threw the first stone
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    If you're INFJ and you think Fe/trying not to make others feeling uncomfortable with your emotional states is "fake" - does that mean you're not really INFJ?
    I think so. Well, unless they're unhealthy 4s, who like to spew emotions all over the replace regardless of whether they use Fe or Fi
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Because I've been busting a gut trying to provide a support...this is obviously exhausting because it's so constant when I'm around her. I've tried to ask her (mostly) gently to think about the effect that it has on my emotions to be trying to support and be cheerful around constant draining negativity, but I think she's too deep in her own stuff to understand.
    This is a interesting thing to me SilkRoad. It might still be a little early in my day to try and explain but let me see here...

    What you write above...that is generally a 'complaint' I hear in 'reverse'. Or with regards to xNFPs...primarily ENFPs. I mean, I have seen on this forum and others...more than once mind you - plenty of times...INFJs and other types state that they don't feel they can just 'be depressed' around xNFPs. Like...I'm not even talking about Fe or Fi or any other functions here. Just that there are times when an individual wants to express their (true) negative feelings and be pissy & crappy...and for that to be okay. But around the xNFP there seems to be an 'unspoken requirement' that a state of 'constant cheerfulness' be maintained. <--- and I have seen this chalked-up to 'fakeness'. Other types expressing a frustration with xNFPs (again - moreso ENFPs) that this is unrealistic. Kinda like a 'fair-weathered' kind of friend. And if the 'depression' is prolonged...the xNFP ends up being 'gone'.

    ^^^not that that has anything to do with anything. But I will go on to say here...that I am 'heavy on the Fi'...and I do not like to show my true feelings to others if they are negative. Even people that are pretty close to me. I have been depressed for quite some time now and I have totally isolated myself. Again...because I do not want to burden others with my hardships.

    Likewise...I know a couple of people that test INFJ. They do not fit the traditional descriptions of INFJ...and so I have, on occassion, had my doubts. But I will say to you...that they do NOT hide their feelings in public or otherwise (and I often wish they did LOL!).

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