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  1. #21
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    The Fi as a function itself is rational (at least in the respect that it is never non-sequitur.) Strong Fi users can be irrational when viewed in the light of a lack of impersonal objective logic only. I see what you're implying however and you have a point. However lack of logic wouldn't necessarily lead to paranoia as a consequence, just the occasional difficulty of thinking out certain issues (for me its a sense of intellectual inferiority and difficulty formulating a plan of action with the information I have. There is little to no anxiety or paranoia in there anyway.)

  2. #22
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    ^Elfboy, you can't take conclusions just from your (small) group of friends. It's not going to give you any solid idea of the reality.
    Anyway, I'm inclined to believe the enneagram type is going to influence what happens to Fi dome....if they're prone to paranoia or anger. anger is associated with type 8, right (or GUT types)t? probably paranoia more with type 6 (or BRAIN types)? If you are a beautiful ENFP enneagram 7, for example, whether you're 7w8 or 7w6 might influence the way your Fi manifests (oops, just noticed you were talking about Fi DOMS, sorry about that, too late. go with this example anyway). Maybe this is why Elfboy (7w8) is so fast at categorizing Fi -> anger. I have quite balanced wings and I'm VERY family with both (anger and paranoia).
    - that's why I said I think. surely as an ENFP you should know how most things we say are probable rather than certain, especially when the statement is clearly tentative
    - I'm a 7w6, not a 7w8. If I'm biased toward anger, it's because I have an insanely strong 1 fix
    - I believe Fi doms are more prone to anger because they are most in touch with how everything measures up with/against their values. inevitably, this is going to lead to significant levels of dissatisfaction and feelings of "but it shouldn't be that way!" because reality pretty much never operates the way an Fi dom's values think it should. this statement is an exception to my first point btw. I've observed plenty of Fi doms IRL and on about 100 of them on forums and it is painfully obvious if you read between the lines. granted, it's usually not the raging, Joan of Arc crusader anger of strong Fi + strong Te (though, for the record, I notice this in you lol) or an enneagram 8, Darth Vader "crush my enemies" sort of anger. it's a much more subtle anger that usually sits below the surface and is hard to express (if I were to compare it with enneagram, it's most like 9, somewhat like 1)


    @OT
    anxiety is mostly correlated with enneagram, specifically the head center (5, 6 and 7) especially 5 and 6
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  3. #23
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - that's why I said I think. surely as an ENFP you should know how most things we say are probable rather than certain, especially when the statement is clearly tentative
    - I'm a 7w6, not a 7w8. If I'm biased toward anger, it's because I have an insanely strong 1 fix
    - I believe Fi doms are more prone to anger because(...)
    you have to understand that i'm a researcher, so "they" have programmed my brain over the years towards logic and facts. lol
    also, you considered yourself a 7w8 till not so long. at least when i wrote that post, which was quite a while i think.
    the rest, yeah ok. i'm kinda not really agreeing with you, because i read somewhere that anger was connected to the gut fix and anxiety to the head fix. but i forgot where. and also we had this discussion so long ago, i dont even care anymore lol

  4. #24
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    ESPs are more classically prone to paranoia than INJs....... and Fi doms are their own brand entirely. I'd agree about the part that what looks like paranoia to us from the outside is more of an Fi dom deep anger thing.

  5. #25
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    honestly, I think Fi doms are more prone to anger. it's subtle and deep seated, but I notice it with most of the Fi doms I talk to.
    I'm both paranoid and have a tendency to anger. But Fi doms are supposed to be conflict avoidant; seems inconsistent. Maybe they repress anger because they want to be nice, and then it explodes? I used to just because I didn't know what was reasonable in a given situation, and now when I get angry it just motivates me to do something. I have noticed that Fi dom kind of anger is a rather particular kind. (And it is rather like what I have, if it were not for the fact that everything points to me extroverting feeling.) Fi dom anger seems to come from either a place of being pushed too far, or a sense of empowerment for actuating what they feel passionately about. It's a subtle form of power, and is expressed in pure feeling and concentrated energy. I think Fe anger is more goal directed in that they have a particular social outcome they want, because they have thoroughly diagnosed the problem with Ti. Fe gets angry about imbalance.

    Anyway, off the thread topic somewhat. I would think Fi would be paranoid in a particular way. Any type can be, due to any function; Fi is just sensitive, and being value based tends to perceive negativity and threat where there might be none. Inferior Te might perceive criticism and judgment where there is none. A Te type of statement might just be neutral, and Fi would be trying to decide if it's good or bad. I think Fi has a hard time with something if it doesn't "mean" anything, so then they attach meaning to it.
    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I believe Fi doms are more prone to anger because they are most in touch with how everything measures up with/against their values. inevitably, this is going to lead to significant levels of dissatisfaction and feelings of "but it shouldn't be that way!" because reality pretty much never operates the way an Fi dom's values think it should.
    This seems very true, and fits in with what I was saying. But you explain why the anger there, where I couldn't. (Maybe because I'm not Fi? The one thing that looks like Fi in me is that I am big on having an attitude. Everything about me can be designed to communicate some sort of attitude, and this is one thing I enjoy about music. Attitude translates into a persona. Maybe this could be Fe, because it seems to demand a social recognition and response.)





    Just my thoughts on all this; if I am totally off, let me know.

  6. #26
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I'm both paranoid and have a tendency to anger. But Fi doms are supposed to be conflict avoidant; seems inconsistent. Maybe they repress anger because they want to be nice, and then it explodes? I used to just because I didn't know what was reasonable in a given situation, and now when I get angry it just motivates me to do something. I have noticed that Fi dom kind of anger is a rather particular kind. (And it is rather like what I have, if it were not for the fact that everything points to me extroverting feeling.) Fi dom anger seems to come from either a place of being pushed too far, or a sense of empowerment for actuating what they feel passionately about. It's a subtle form of power, and is expressed in pure feeling and concentrated energy. I think Fe anger is more goal directed in that they have a particular social outcome they want, because they have thoroughly diagnosed the problem with Ti. Fe gets angry about imbalance.

    Just my thoughts; if I am totally off, let me know.
    you're not off. my observations support everything you've said. I think Fi doms are angry a lot, but they are confused by their anger because, as you said, they don't often know what is appropriate or how to express it because they usually lack Te. an E?FP on the other hand is usually better able to express and assert their anger.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  7. #27
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    you're not off. my observations support everything you've said. I think Fi doms are angry a lot, but they are confused by their anger because, as you said, they don't often know what is appropriate or how to express it because they usually lack Te. an E?FP on the other hand is usually better able to express and assert their anger.
    Yeah that's a good point; I hadn't thought of Te being a vehicle for expressing anger, but it makes sense. I had always thought Fe would translate to knowledge of boundaries and social propriety, thereby giving a sense of how to express anger; but Te going along with Fi makes sense in a different way.

    (Also I edited my post, as usual, with some random thoughts about how I relate to this, in case you missed it and are curious.)

  8. #28
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    The Fi as a function itself is rational (at least in the respect that it is never non-sequitur.) Strong Fi users can be irrational when viewed in the light of a lack of impersonal objective logic only. I see what you're implying however and you have a point. However lack of logic wouldn't necessarily lead to paranoia as a consequence, just the occasional difficulty of thinking out certain issues (for me its a sense of intellectual inferiority and difficulty formulating a plan of action with the information I have. There is little to no anxiety or paranoia in there anyway.)
    Fi isn't logical at all. Fi users are only logical when their function is coupled with Te. Te and Ti are the logical functions.

  9. #29
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    I'm paranoid about creaky noises, strange smells, and things that go bump in the night but not people's motivations, because I can get a general read on people's motivations pretty quickly. Most of them are not out to harm me, some are wonderful people and want the best for me, and a small number are genuinely malevolent, in which case I either tell them what I think of them or avoid them or both.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Fi isn't logical at all. Fi users are only logical when their function is coupled with Te. Te and Ti are the logical functions.
    You don't seem to understand. I'll try and simplify what I wrote so I hope this will be easy enough for you. Fi isn't logical in the impersonal, objective sense. You don't need to tell me this since I quite literally stated it in my post above. In fact I never even called it logical. What I stated was that Fi is rational. To the observer the Fi-dom is an irrational mess. This is because the Te is weak. However the Fi itself is far closer to a system of pure order than a disordered mess. There is a very clear sense of internal order and cause and effect inside the Fi. No action, thought or emotion which has utilised or been influenced by the Fi function is non-sequitur, there is an underlying reasoning to all of it which has used premises which are subjective to the self. If an Fi-dom were to be paranoid then it's the case where the Fi has operated as per its correct parameters however the Te has been unable to rationalise the notion out of existence using its external logic. But there's nothing inherent inside the Fi which would make someone particularly paranoid. More of an individual's failure to determine all of the Ne possibilities.

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