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  1. #21
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    It can go both ways.
    No, most seem to agree that psychopaths are born with a defect in their brains while sociopathy is caused by an abusive upbringing, parental neglect etc.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsung View Post
    No, most seem to agree that psychopaths are born with a defect in their brains while sociopathy is caused by an abusive upbringing, parental neglect etc.
    They are essentially the same thing.

  3. #23
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    First off some people aren't born being psychopaths, some people develop the trait from an abusive upbringing as in Chrales Manson case who was abandoned by his parents. So they need to be ruthless and unsympathetic to survive in their environment. I don't see the connection between a ruthless criminal and not having a personality, that's like saying you lost your right arm so you can't play soccer. Psychopaths still have a functional preference; psychopaths like Anthony Hopkins in in the silence of the lamb films are much more intuitive/thinking, while others are more feeling or impulsive. So yes they have a personality 100%. To say psychopaths only have "Id's" is also false that would put them at the intellectual level of animals. There have been many in the past including dictators like Adolf Hitler who carry out specific plans and strategies to eliminate people.
    It is pretty-much a done deal by six years old, if someone is to be a psychopath or a sociopath. You've been watching too many movies. Psychopaths only have id. They still have the capacity to learn through observation and reading, and such. Sure, they can develop different skills, be born with different genes, and they develop different preferences. They have different drives and motivations from normal people.

    It's a subject that needs to be studied and not reasoned. There is no reasoning to it. It's like saying a pig isn't a pig.

    Quote Originally Posted by unsung View Post
    No, most seem to agree that psychopaths are born with a defect in their brains while sociopathy is caused by an abusive upbringing, parental neglect etc.
    Sociopaths are also all id. They do not have an ego or superego.
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  4. #24
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    You can still type these kinds of people.

    Some of them are super organized, premeditating kinds of killers. Others are disorganized, randomly choose targets, etc. Some live alone and keep to themselves. Others regale in the company of others.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    It is pretty-much a done deal by six years old, if someone is to be a psychopath or a sociopath. You've been watching too many movies. Psychopaths only have id. They still have the capacity to learn through observation and reading, and such.

    It's a subject that needs to be studied and not reasoned. There is no reasoning to it. It's like saying a pig isn't a pig.
    False, sociopaths are known to be shaped by their environment while psychopaths are known to be born that way, however there is a still a nature/nuture debate between the two. To say a psychopath has no ego is just straight out fail you are putting them at level of animals which they are not they are able to carry out plans and pursue intellectual pursuits like Charles Manson or Hitler.

  6. #26
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    You can still type these kinds of people.

    Some of them are super organized, premeditating kinds of killers. Others are disorganized, randomly choose targets, etc. Some live alone and keep to themselves. Others regale in the company of others.
    Yes, you can type how you think they are acting. The deal is, though, that it will generally be inconsistent, since it isn't based on a real personality type. They can learn to imitate many people, and many actions, quite easily compared to a normal person.
    There are antisocial types, which do determine some features:
    ovetous antisocial - variant of the pure pattern where individuals feel that life has not given them their due.
    reputation-defending antisocial - including narcissistic features
    risk-taking antisocial - including histrionic features
    nomadic antisocial - including schizoid, avoidant features
    malevolent antisocial - including sadistic, paranoid features.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    False, sociopaths are known to be shaped by their environment while psychopaths are known to be born that way, however there is a still a nature/nuture debate between the two. To say a psychopath has no ego is just straight out fail you are putting them at level of animals which they are not they are able to carry out plans and pursue intellectual pursuits like Charles Manson or Hitler.
    Go study. I lived with fucking two sociopaths for 14 years, I should know. I've studied it, and observed it. Yes, there is a nature/nurture debate, and I tend to think it is a combination of the two generally, just like borderline personality disorder, which I had. However, the deed is finished early. The most important time is from birth to two years old for them, and if development has not happened, it's looking grim. By six, it's generally a done-deal. That's one reason you see conduct disorders, and kids going to juvenile detention halls early-on. APD isn't claimed until adulthood generally when they can diagnose it, that doesn't mean it doesn't already exist within the individual. Hitler was not a sociopath, i don't think, but I tend to use real life examples and not movies I've watched, to determine the truth.

    My ex was extremely crafty and intelligent. The lack of ego and superego does not determine intelligence. It's a different animal. There are specifics that, just like normal human beings, seem unreasonable.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I think he's a Fe type easily. He's too inclined to affect to be Fi imo. I think FPs have a different sense of other people's space.

    And not necessarily a strong Fe "user" btw. Could be ESTP.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Yes, you can type how you think they are acting. The deal is, though, that it will generally be inconsistent, since it isn't based on a real personality type. They can learn to imitate many people, and many actions, quite easily compared to a normal person.
    There are antisocial types, which do determine some features:
    ovetous antisocial - variant of the pure pattern where individuals feel that life has not given them their due.
    reputation-defending antisocial - including narcissistic features
    risk-taking antisocial - including histrionic features
    nomadic antisocial - including schizoid, avoidant features
    malevolent antisocial - including sadistic, paranoid features.



    Go study. I lived with fucking two sociopaths for 14 years, I should know. I've studied it, and observed it.
    Yeah because you lived with 2 sociopaths for 14 years your logic on how sociopaths/psychopaths have no personality type and are all animals somehow all make sense.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I think he's a Fe type easily. He's too inclined to affect to be Fi imo. I think FPs have a different sense of other people's space.

    And not necessarily a strong Fe "user" btw. Could be ESTP.
    I thought he was ESTP as well, but he seems to have a great deal of intuition.

  10. #30
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I thought he was ESTP as well, but he seems to have a great deal of intuition.
    But it's the kind of screwy intuition that I've noticed a little in stressed ESPs. Or even myself - when I took LSD. sigh

    It's hard to explain.. There was actually a good description of inferior Ni on the Lenore Thomson/Greenlight Wiki, but the site seems to be down. It basically boiled down to hardcore egoism, and gleaning mystical meanings out of the smallest things. Like he did with the whole Helter Skelter interpretation. And unlike Ne, he's isn't exactly all over the place. He gets fixated - and as we know, wanted to carry it out in all it's brutality. He'd never stop and entertain another scenario.

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