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Thread: INTx and Fe

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    Default INTx and Fe

    Lately, I have been wondering quite a lot what I actually am in terms of the MBTI and the Jungian cognitive functions. I test as an INTx but the cognitive functions test claims that in addition to Ni, Ne, Ti and Te, I also have Fi on at least "good" level. It's actually higher than either of my N-functions. Si and Se are limited and Fe unused.

    As far as I know, Fe is about need to connect with people and reach for harmony between people even when that might compromise being true to oneself.

    I think I am basically a T, quite strong one actually, but yet I surprisingly often see myself acting as if I was acting according to Fe. It is not as pure Fe as I think Fe should be to be real but it's rather something that my logic says fitting the situation. I mean, considering harmony in a group work, for example, I will not be the one to actively build that but I will surely notice anyone else's attempts to do so and I will usually aim to support those action without making too much noise about that.

    So what I am wondering is what am I actually doing in those situations. My own assumptions are that either (or both) I logically know that harmony between others is for my good as well (I could do without harmony but not without other people and I know most people couldn't do without harmony) or it's my Fi working via my Te.

    Myy "Fe" is not about caring about individuals just because of themselves but rather about knowing that caring about them will make the environment a better place to be in and will thus help me as well. Also, I rarely bother to make an action to support an individual the F-way because I don't think I am any good at such things but I do see when such support is needed and will try to help indirectly.

    What is all this about? Is it Fe after all, is it unselfishness or is it just pure selfish logic?

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    Well, there are different schools of thought. Do you switch to Fe as your primary perspective or, as an INTP, do you merely utilizing Fe traits within your predominate Thinking mindset? What you could be looking at could simply be Fe in subservience to Ti... it would be lesser, reconstructed, or mirrored somehow.

    I don't really experience my social graces that much differently. I feel like I really understand the Fe perspective and rank high on it, but I only really understand it because I've modeled it with Ti skills. It's not as if it's my native tongue, and in fact it took me years to acquaint myself with it before I (1) first saw its value and then (2) started to really understand it as a framework in itself, that is as valid as any other cog function framework.

    I basically understand the "logic" of Fe and that's what I apply. I see what it is trying to accomplish, and it has come to align with my natural conclusions on how groups of people function together in relationship/community, but I can't say I actually "think/cogitate" in terms of Fe as if it were my first tongue. The only reason I accept it is because Ti style thought got me there.

    I actually find it harder for judging doms to understand perc doms.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, there are different schools of thought. Do you switch to Fe as your primary perspective or, as an INTP, do you merely utilizing Fe traits within your predominate Thinking mindset?
    What I suspect is (I think it is) something similar to your description of yourself. Fe is something that doesn't come from me naturally (without a thought) but it's rather a learned reaction. I have observed that in certain situations, Fe is what is needed, and I have learned to (intuitively?) recognize those situation, but I usually act indirectly, trying utilize my Te to affect the situation such way that the apparent need of Fe would vanish.

    I might, for example, take advantage of my possible leadership position to emphasize certain values lack of which I might consider to be a reason for the need of Fe. And that's something I would consider to be more Fi reflected through Te than real Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I basically understand the "logic" of Fe and that's what I apply. I see what it is trying to accomplish, and it has come to align with my natural conclusions on how groups of people function together in relationship/community, but I can't say I actually "think/cogitate" in terms of Fe as if it were my first tongue. The only reason I accept it is because Ti style thought got me there.
    Very well put I can easily relate to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I actually find it harder for judging doms to understand perc doms.
    I am not sure what you mean exactly, but I often feel it merely impossible to have a true balance between P and J even though I have them equally strong. Every now and then I just have choose whether I want to observe/perceive or act and whatever I choose to do, I can't do them simultaneously and the change is quite consuming if the context won't change as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gandalf View Post
    I am not sure what you mean exactly, but I often feel it merely impossible to have a true balance between P and J even though I have them equally strong. Every now and then I just have choose whether I want to observe/perceive or act and whatever I choose to do, I can't do them simultaneously and the change is quite consuming if the context won't change as well.
    Well, I was referring not to J vs P per se as the "fake functions" they are [because the J/P letter more describes one's orientation toward external closure/organization] but to judging function doms (Ti, Fi, Te, or Fe as your dominant function) vs perceiving function doms (Si, Ni, Se, Ne) because they are two completely different ways of approaching things.

    J doms are always making determinations and collecting data in order to do so -- they might look inside, they might look outside to collect that data, but there's always this dominant judging process that is making determinations. Everything feeds the judging process. Decision. Decision. Decision. Your Te and Fe doms are making decisions and building a process or organization. Your Ti and Fi doms are making determinations and building a model or a system (logical or ethical).

    Perceiving doms typically see the world a certain way, and then the judging process is used in order to affirm that perception and/or accomplish things according to the perception.

    I think there can be some misunderstandings when J is looking for some "rational" progression from data, when the P already sees the outcome/reality and uses J to reinforce or implement it. Etc.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, I was referring not to J vs P per se as the "fake functions" they are [because the J/P letter more describes one's orientation toward external closure/organization] but to judging function doms (Ti, Fi, Te, or Fe as your dominant function) vs perceiving function doms (Si, Ni, Se, Ne) because they are two completely different ways of approaching things.

    J doms are always making determinations and collecting data in order to do so -- they might look inside, they might look outside to collect that data, but there's always this dominant judging process that is making determinations. Everything feeds the judging process. Decision. Decision. Decision. Your Te and Fe doms are making decisions and building a process or organization. Your Ti and Fi doms are making determinations and building a model or a system (logical or ethical).

    Perceiving doms typically see the world a certain way, and then the judging process is used in order to affirm that perception and/or accomplish things according to the perception.

    I think there can be some misunderstandings when J is looking for some "rational" progression from data, when the P already sees the outcome/reality and uses J to reinforce or implement it. Etc.
    That was off the topic as you must have noticed as well it was nevertheless very interesting. It would actually be worth a thread of it's own. I think I started something somewhat similar some weeks ago and I don't think I got too many answers in that thread, though...

    Any way, that comment of yours gave me a whole new perspective to this "inner dualism" I feel due to being X when it comes to P-J. Thanks for that! I just have to think about it bit more before I can actually say something about it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gandalf View Post
    So what I am wondering is what am I actually doing in those situations. My own assumptions are that either (or both) I logically know that harmony between others is for my good as well (I could do without harmony but not without other people and I know most people couldn't do without harmony) or it's my Fi working via my Te.

    Myy "Fe" is not about caring about individuals just because of themselves but rather about knowing that caring about them will make the environment a better place to be in and will thus help me as well. Also, I rarely bother to make an action to support an individual the F-way because I don't think I am any good at such things but I do see when such support is needed and will try to help indirectly.

    What is all this about? Is it Fe after all, is it unselfishness or is it just pure selfish logic?
    I'm not sure there is anything that is truly unselfish. The highlighted is very similar to my own perspective, and I agree that it is both. I can do a decent "faux-Fe" based upon learned rules, when I consider it necessary to obtain some greater good. It is not a good in itself to me, and I lack a natural grasp of it, though I can generalize or extrapolate from familiar rules. I see also an Fi component, though. I do not do it just to maintain a productive external harmony, but because I consider certain behaviors "the right thing to do" by my own standards.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    I just by a chance came across to something interesting in an INTJ type description...

    On the job, they take the goals of the institutions seriously and continually strive to respond to these goals. They make dedicated, loyal employees whose loyalties are directed toward the system, rather than toward individuals within the system. So as the people of an institution come and go, the INTJs tend, ordinarily, to verbalise the positive and eschew comments of a negative nature; they are more interested in moving an institution forward than commiserating about mistakes of the past.
    My intuition says this has something to do with the kind of Fe - be it real or fake Fe - discussed in this thread but I it's going to take some time to form anything explainable out of that. Any thoughts in the meanwhile?
    INTJ, HSP, 1w9 or tritype 154, sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by gandalf View Post
    I just by a chance came across to something interesting in an INTJ type description...



    My intuition says this has something to do with the kind of Fe - be it real or fake Fe - discussed in this thread but I it's going to take some time to form anything explainable out of that. Any thoughts in the meanwhile?
    I would say that INTJ description is how Te and Fi merge together into something more complex. Older INTJs (and TJs in general) seem have a strong sense of honor, loyalty, perserverence, and dedication to tasks/goals. With their close ones, I suspect their is some amount of visceral empathy. With organizations-I suspect they recognize that by identifying the best total outcome for the organization-they help the individuals in the organization.

    INTJs do pull off a pretty sweet Faux-Fe in which they can learn many of the required social patterns and even seem to exude Fe at times, but they dont recieve Fe at all-they are very Fe blind to nuances. LOL, they seem to be imprinting machines as children.

    Also-Fe isnt just being polite-it seems to be a mode of communication and an entire worldview that colors the type of information chosen to be perceieved...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I would say that INTJ description is how Te and Fi merge together into something more complex. Older INTJs (and TJs in general) seem have a strong sense of honor, loyalty, perserverence, and dedication to tasks/goals. With their close ones, I suspect their is some amount of visceral empathy. With organizations-I suspect they recognize that by identifying the best total outcome for the organization-they help the individuals in the organization.
    This seems reasonably accurate. It does assume that the INTJ shares the organizational goals, a fair assumption since, if they did not, they would either work to change them, or find another organization.

    This is also a good example of how we approach situations impersonally. It is not about the people involved, but the "greater good" of those common goals. We are very critical, and do our best to understand and learn from mistakes of the past. But we cannot change the past itself, so continuing to bemoan it (and to badmouth people who may be long gone) serves no useful purpose. The focus on the positive is really a focus on what is within our control. It is focusing on where we want to go, rather than where we have been, especially if the latter was not so good.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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