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  1. #11
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I bring up the Socionics intertype relations thing because I think you'll find that how other types view the INFJ is very much dependent upon what type they are. You'll notice patterns, for example, in how INTPs view INFJs which will be different than how ENFPs view INFJs.
    It's worth remembering that Socionics messes with function order. Their description of INFp is very similar to an MBTI INFP, yet the function order is actually that of an MBTI INFJ. Just remember to check which function order you think is correct and then choose accordingly.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
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    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  2. #12
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    they're so difficult to get to really open up! I see them helping or wanting to help people a lot and I don't know who they allow to do that for them
    Im not going to speak for every INFJ on this site, however in my case the difficulty in letting people in lays in the massive betrayals Ive experienced and witnessed in my life. Ive had guys use my good helping nature and abuse it, past girlfriends have sh** on it and expressed not-so-subtle jealousy that Id give my caring attention to someone other than them, and one girlfriend who tried her hardest to rework my personality, preferences, and tastes to her liking. In short, I need to be thoroughly reassured that someone gets me and has good intentions before I let them into my core. I also cannot stand to let people who are only out for number one and nothing else to get close to me and inside my inner world. Those kind of people only typically see me as a way to get an extra leg up in the world, and typically dont grant me the credit Id thrive on.

    I've only ever known female INFJs, but I love them.

    I have a lot of respect for INFJs because they seem to be able to manifest qualities that I feel, but can't show. They are very caring and it's amazing to watch them at work in that capacity. While I pillory myself because I just can't see how it's possible to end a person's sadness, an INFJ is there actually making an attempt - and doing a good job. I love being around them because they don't judge me for my flights of fancy. I also think I serve to strengthen their self-confidence by telling them to forget everyone else in the world and just do what you want as long as you don't hurt anyone. I've never worked out why they feel so insecure because I've never met an INFJ that wasn't a lovely person.

    I am fiercely protective of INFJs because I recognise that they are almost like the INFP's hands in the world. They do the things I wish I could but can't because it's too emotionally tortuous: if I see a child that's upset, I get upset for them; an INFJ will actually go and make things better. In this sense, I feel like I will take the slings and arrows on their behalf so they don't ever have to feel bad - they've got too many gifts that might be wasted if they feel sad. I'd rather that I feel sad for them and they feel happy and caring!

    In a way, I think we both look at each other and see the things we lack in ourselves. As I've said, I see the "pastoral care" present in an INFJ that I wish I could offer but can't. Likewise, I think they see in INFPs a strength of character which allows us to disregard everyone else and follow our own whims.

    It's a great partnership, and I wish I knew more INFJs.
    This is by far the most reverent description of INFJs Ive read on this site thus far. The insecurity can stem for the Fe side of things. Ive personally worked on toughening myself up against criticism and the like, and while Ive gotten better about not showing how badly it can sting, I havent been able to work on making it sting or hurt less. INFJs are super sensitive to conflict. Its almost literally against our nature to fight or argue under regular circumstances. Im going to be a bit personal here and say that if I find a cause or person I care for a lot, I turn from a meek and kind hearted individual into a sincerely protective and confident man who isnt the least bit afraid to defend what he cares for. Im not saying "HULK SMASH PUNY MAN!!" angry or aggressive, but stout enough to stave off most attacks.

    I feel a lot more comfortable when someone isn't trying to comfort me.
    Hmmm. Im not sure I could say Id try to *not* comfort you. In his position Id probably get a bit miffed at the body language and what I believe he would perceive as snappish words, mull it over for a bit and fume it, then come back and try to tackle the issue from another angle. Theres always a way to help someone with their problems. Its a matter of diversifying yourself enough to make your help comfortable for the variety of people youre likely to deal with. Which is where our natural inclination to deal with individuals one-on-one come in handy, as it would allow an INFJ like myself to "personalize" they way I approach and deal with that person peacefully.

    I've noticed they seem to be unnecessarily obstinate (the whole J thing I guess), and sometimes too resistant to changing the plan. INFJs always have a plan for whatever they're doing... and boy they don't like that plan to be changed unexpectedly.
    Im 100% guilty of that. It frustrates the living daylights out of me when people I plan with just up and change it without telling me. I dont deal well with large changes in my plans, and I sure as heck dont appreciate it if the perpetrator is aware of my need to communicate and be aware of any kind of changes. I wont say its not a control thing. In my case its a 100% need to control major plans I put into motion. I say this because I typically give a very large amount of thought to them and lay out fairly detailed groundwork *before* I tell someone involved what it is I have in mind. Its for that very reason that it drives me bonkers when people in on the plan get reckless with it.

  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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  4. #14
    Member Bamboozle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synth View Post
    Hmmm. Im not sure I could say Id try to *not* comfort you. In his position Id probably get a bit miffed at the body language and what I believe he would perceive as snappish words, mull it over for a bit and fume it, then come back and try to tackle the issue from another angle. Theres always a way to help someone with their problems. Its a matter of diversifying yourself enough to make your help comfortable for the variety of people youre likely to deal with. Which is where our natural inclination to deal with individuals one-on-one come in handy, as it would allow an INFJ like myself to "personalize" they way I approach and deal with that person peacefully.
    Nah, I didn't snap at him. That would be both rude and downright mean. No, I just thanked him—but I suspect it came off strained because I was self-conscious that I had an Fe-obligation to emote 'being comforted' :P.

    But you're right, actually. He's been adapting his tactics. I think I saw him have an epiphany about how to deal with me when he saw me interacting with his INTJ buddy. Since then, it's like he's been testing out different tactics.

    Pretty impressed since I tend to feel that I have to adapt in some way. I still do but, this time, the other person is actually making an effort, too—and is actually good at it!

  5. #15
    Senior Member Wanderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I wouldn't say that ENFPs have trouble keeping promises, just that we are willing to readjust our priorities as we see the situation change. I think this seems very wishy washy for INFJs. Most ENFPs (and especially mature ones with some life experience under their belt) take their promises very seriously. Another thing is that ENFPs will say things without thinking it through. In other words, I say crazy shit all the time that I have to sort through later to see if I really meant it. This might make INFJs (and other types who consider carefully what they say before they say it) think ENFPs as untrustworthy. They're not really. You just have to understand this part of their personality. Sometimes the words come before the reflection. It's an ExxP/IxxJ think I think.

    So back to the original post, INFJs think through things before they say them. And, they prefer consistency in the people around them. At least that's my observation.
    It *is* very hard for me not to view the ENFP's in my life as untrustworthy; a few bad experiences with ENFP's have left a bad taste in my mouth.
    How do I, as an INFJ, know when I can trust what an ENFP is saying?
    I assume writing off an entire personality type is less than healthy.

    If this is a topic that deserves it's own thread, MODS please move it; I'm not very good at the whole "forum" thing yet. Not trying to jack the thread

  6. #16
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    I have a bit of a friend from high school who's INFJ (well we used to be more of friends, but haven't talked in a while), & he's kind of a genius. In clinical functional terms-- he can instantly understand how to do things, & how things work, social situations, abstract things, video games, school things. But in terms of what I think of as "universal understanding," he seems lacking. By that I mean, the connections between everything, the way objective reality is always blurring at the edges... I don't think he cares about it honestly. He's much more of a people person than me.

    The INFJs on this forum seem very thoughtful, kind of scholarly.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member fripping's Avatar
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    lady infjs good, man infjs bad unless they have serious drug or alcohol problems then they're ok.

  8. #18
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    It *is* very hard for me not to view the ENFP's in my life as untrustworthy; a few bad experiences with ENFP's have left a bad taste in my mouth. How do I, as an INFJ, know when I can trust what an ENFP is saying? I assume writing off an entire personality type is less than healthy.
    Hmmm. I guess I'd challenge you to not judge ENFPs by your own INFJ standards, but to judge an ENFP by how they live within their own value system. See the beauty in the ENFP way, even if it is radically different than how you interact with the world as an INFJ. Remember one way isn't better than another. They are just different. In other words, each approach has it's strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps it would help if you consider the weakness of the INFJ approach and the strength of the ENFP approach.

    For example, ENFPs have an amazing ability to go back and reevaluate situations and fine tune their approach. (Said in another way, they can say one thing, go and reflect, then change their mind.) This might seem loosely goosey (aka untrustworthy) to you, but being flexible and spontaneous is a real gift. ENFPs may say almost anything that comes into their head, but they can also be fluid as the situation requires. They can change on a dime. They can instantly tailor their approach to make the people around them feel more comfortable. In this way, they kick some serious INFJ ass.

    So to keep us on the original topic, let me point out that sometimes INFJs can seem aloof and distant... especially around those they don't know well. Perhaps part of the reason for this is that they do place such a high value on thinking things through before they say them. Sometimes they wind up saying not very much at all. In other words, sometimes they hold too much of themselves back. Also, at their worst, INFJs can come across as rigid and inflexible. Once an INFJ has made a decision they like to stick to it. Sometimes this limits their ability to adapt to knew and fluid situations.

    ^^^^^
    Even though these faults are visible in every INFJ I know, that doesn't mean that's the sum of their character. The same logic applies to ENFPs who haven't yet mastered following through on what they say. This is something that an immature ENFP tends to have to work on. Even so, most ENFPs I know are very earnest about keeping their promises and try very hard to live by their usually highly evolved (viz., Fi) value system.

    <-- Don't be hatin' us ENFPs.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Hmmm. I guess I'd challenge you to not judge ENFPs by your own INFJ standards, but to judge an ENFP by how they live within their own value system. See the beauty in the ENFP way, even if it is radically different than how you interact with the world as an INFJ. Remember one way isn't better than another. They are just different. In other words, each approach has it's strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps it would help if you consider the weakness of the INFJ approach and the strength of the ENFP approach.

    For example, ENFPs have an amazing ability to go back and reevaluate situations and fine tune their approach. (Said in another way, they can say one thing, go and reflect, then change their mind.) This might seem loosely goosey (aka untrustworthy) to you, but being flexible and spontaneous is a real gift. ENFPs may say almost anything that comes into their head, but they can also be fluid as the situation requires. They can change on a dime. They can instantly tailor their approach to make the people around them feel more comfortable. In this way, they kick some serious INFJ ass.

    So to keep us on the original topic, let me point out that sometimes INFJs can seem aloof and distant... especially around those they don't know well. Perhaps part of the reason for this is that they do place such a high value on thinking things through before they say them. Sometimes they wind up saying not very much at all. In other words, sometimes they hold too much of themselves back. Also, at their worst, INFJs can come across as rigid and inflexible. Once an INFJ has made a decision they like to stick to it. Sometimes this limits their ability to adapt to knew and fluid situations.

    ^^^^^
    Even though these faults are visible in every INFJ I know, that doesn't mean that's the sum of their character. The same logic applies to ENFPs who haven't yet mastered following through on what they say. This is something that an immature ENFP tends to have to work on. Even so, most ENFPs I know are very earnest about keeping their promises and try very hard to live by their usually highly evolved (viz., Fi) value system.

    <-- Don't be hatin' us ENFPs.
    I would strongly agree with that, but... I still see how someone who values stability may take issue with something that is so slippery and ever changing. It's like buying a dog and then waking up to an iguana or a hippopotamus in your room.
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  10. #20
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I would strongly agree with that, but... I still see how someone who values stability may take issue with something that is so slippery and ever changing. It's like buying a dog and then waking up to an iguana or a hippopotamus in your room.
    I suspect that the people I'm about to refer to are not particularly "healthy", which might explain a lot - but while I can see the advantages of being more adaptable, I've met ExxPs and xxFPs (those especially) whose words and actions have consistently failed to match up, and who so repeatedly say one thing and then do another that I no longer believe much of what they say, at least in certain areas. I've had sufficient bad experiences with these people that in those areas I just tune them out, don't take it to heart, don't get too involved, and just wait to see what happens, basically.

    This kind of thing can really shake an INFJ if they get too involved because we tend to reflect before we speak and then say things that don't change quickly, and I think we often make the mistake of thinking that many other people of widely varying types are the same. So you can get to the point with people who do the above where you still care about them and wish them well, but basically you find it hard to take them seriously, and possibly hard to even respect them.
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