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  1. #61
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    Yes, , I should be more assertive, but as long as I can avoid being one, I will...
    Yes, you are right. I don't have the inner INTJ to speak reason to me, maybe I should try to find one (inside of my own mind)
    just so you know, assertiveness simply means that you try to communicate to get everyone's best interests met. 98% of the time, it doesn't require force, simply direct and honest communication
    though, sometimes I like to use a little force
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  2. #62
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    I don't understand all this sensitivity, negativity and concern about boundaries. Maybe it is a matter of degree. Being a little emotionally invasive does not have to be bad - or have a negative connotation. Being open with someone, revealing something of yourself, asking them to reveal something of themselves, pushing boundaries, can be a way for you to get closer. It doesn't mean you have to push them into a corner but sometimes people need to be drawn out.

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  3. #63
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I don't understand all this sensitivity, negativity and concern about boundaries. Maybe it is a matter of degree. Being a little emotionally invasive does not have to be bad - or have a negative connotation. Being open with someone, revealing something of yourself, asking them to reveal something of themselves, pushing boundaries, can be a way for you to get closer. It doesn't mean you have to push them into a corner but sometimes people need to be drawn out.
    That's what I thought.

    There were numerous occasions that I felt people are being too open about themselves to me. Though I consider that as an act of wanting to connect emotionally on a deeper level, I don't see why we should see it as offensive.

    I see it as an invitation of bond and of course I don't open up to everyone. To those I felt I'm not ready or I'm not in the same wavelength with them, I try to at least listen to them without opening up myself. Just remember the ultimate decision is on our hands and I believe no one actually can control their emotional state of mind. It just happens.

    I think most Fi'ers have problem with this. But then, most of the time, people might be "confused" about our personal connections. I think most people who seem to be emotionally invasive might either have a poor judgement of intimacy, or they have been "mislead" by others into believing that they've already established a trusted bond between them (ENFJ and ENFP in particular).

    When a person apply emotional invasion, I consider it as a sign they're in a difficult life stage and just wanted to be listened to--they just wanted to find sympathy within human interactions, or perhaps someone to empathize, if they've found the right person.

  4. #64
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    I see it as an invitation of bond and of course I don't open up to everyone. To those I felt I'm not ready or I'm not in the same wavelength with them, I try to at least listen to them without opening up myself. Just remember the ultimate decision is on our hands and I believe no one actually can control their emotional state of mind. It just happens.
    Right. It's a balance - little bit here, little bit there. It doesn't have to be over the top. It also doesn't have to be at the same time either. You build up trust over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    I think most Fi'ers have problem with this. But then, most of the time, people might be "confused" about our personal connections. I think most people who seem to be emotionally invasive might either have a poor judgement of intimacy, or they have been "mislead" by others into believing that they've already established a trusted bond between them (ENFJ and ENFP in particular).

    When a person apply emotional invasion, I consider it as a sign they're in a difficult life stage and just wanted to be listened to--they just wanted to find sympathy within human interactions, or perhaps someone to empathize, if they've found the right person.
    I have seen people who carry this to excess with too many people (one ENFP I can think of in the past for example) but that seems rare. I don't know. It just doesn't bother me almost ever when people are open. I like that.

    Then again, there is always the question as to what emotionally invasive really means. My view is that it can be someone who is revealing more than would be expected in the situation or it can be someone who pushes you to open up about something that you don't want to. That's how I look at it anyway. And again, I think a little of it is OK.

    In a relationship with a SO, depth of intimacy is pretty important in my mind. You know - getting to the center of your emotions. Some people are a hard nut to crack, they resist it, and you have to nudge and push a bit to get them to go there. You have to be a bit "invasive" along the way. Maybe that's not what we're talking about though.

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  5. #65
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Then again, there is always the question as to what emotionally invasive really means. My view is that it can be someone who is revealing more than would be expected in the situation or it can be someone who pushes you to open up about something that you don't want to. That's how I look at it anyway. And again, I think a little of it is OK.

    In a relationship with a SO, depth of intimacy is pretty important in my mind. You know - getting to the center of your emotions. Some people are a hard nut to crack, they resist it, and you have to nudge and push a bit to get them to go there. You have to be a bit "invasive" along the way. Maybe that's not what we're talking about though.
    I understand what you are saying here, and agree that sometimes that is just what we need, INTJs especially (maybe other NTs or I_T's as well). There is a fine line, however, between drawing someone out in a supportive and inviting way, and being overly aggressive and nosy. Some people have a gift for this; others do not. Still others are not even asking the personal questions as part of a give-and-take, or to establish a relationship. They just are plain nosy, or throwing out questions without thought.

    I may wonder why someone is sharing what seems an unusual amount of personal information with me, but if they are intent on doing so, I will often hear them out if I can. Trying to pull personal information out of me is another matter entirely, and my tolerance for it is much lower.
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  6. #66
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    There is a fine line, however, between drawing someone out in a supportive and inviting way, and being overly aggressive and nosy. Some people have a gift for this; others do not. Still others are not even asking the personal questions as part of a give-and-take, or to establish a relationship. They just are plain nosy, or throwing out questions without thought.

    I may wonder why someone is sharing what seems an unusual amount of personal information with me, but if they are intent on doing so, I will often hear them out if I can. Trying to pull personal information out of me is another matter entirely, and my tolerance for it is much lower.
    Agreed. There is also the matter of keeping confidences, which I place a lot of importance on.

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  7. #67
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    If you frequently find yourself pushed to the wall and the other person won't stop, sometimes the only thing to do is to figure out what makes them feel like that and do it to them until they're really worked up, and then stop and inform them that that is how you feel when they do X. You need a ready example, and you need to already have told them a couple of times what you don't like, so when you do this "back atcha" technique, they have the links ready to fall into place. Sometimes people just don't get what you're feeling until they feel it themselves. It has to be without anger on your part and perfectly willing to drop it when it's over. Just make the impression once and while their adrenaline is up, reinforce it strongly. Now you have a point to draw from. If it starts to happen again, you can just gently say "Ok, back off me a little," and they should get it.

    Explaining things works for cerebral types sometimes but not everybody gets it until they've experienced it.

  8. #68
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    If you frequently find yourself pushed to the wall and the other person won't stop, sometimes the only thing to do is to figure out what makes them feel like that and do it to them until they're really worked up, and then stop and inform them that that is how you feel when they do X. You need a ready example, and you need to already have told them a couple of times what you don't like, so when you do this "back atcha" technique, they have the links ready to fall into place. Sometimes people just don't get what you're feeling until they feel it themselves. It has to be without anger on your part and perfectly willing to drop it when it's over. Just make the impression once and while their adrenaline is up, reinforce it strongly. Now you have a point to draw from. If it starts to happen again, you can just gently say "Ok, back off me a little," and they should get it.

    Explaining things works for cerebral types sometimes but not everybody gets it until they've experienced it.
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  9. #69
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Eh, I need to tone down a little and expose a bit more of my self if anything is going to happen to me. Keeping people out is easy for me. I need to be better about the opposite; allowing things to happen.

  10. #70
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Just peeping in here, to see what people said. My thoughts are you guys need to define what is emotionally invasive (for other people). Granted I'm no expert....my mother was extremely emotionally invasive, so I have no real sense of boundaries myself, I guess. (Think the mother in Black swan, and you'd be right on track). Admittedly an extreme situation, which I excuted an extreme solution, but as a result I'm extremely cagey about privacy.
    But really it boils down to this, there is no need to push and try and open my head with a can opener, when if you were patient, I would have given the information freely.
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