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  1. #11
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I definitely have a retreat mode. What gets more frustrating is when this occurs and I cannot retreat from them or the situation easily. Family Member/SO, etc.
    Yeah in those situations I tend to flip out a little bit. I'd rather not flip out, but when forced, I will.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  2. #12
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    I feel like this just happened to me, just now. Some acquaintances of mine who I've always been pleasant to accused me of "having a chip on my shoulder" and "not liking them" JUST BECAUSE I'M QUIET. Quiet =/= don't like you.

    Of course these boys are quite young and probably Fe types, and I'm only left to presume they actually were trying to get some action or something, because WTF. Why else would you care so much if I talk to you much, hug you, or go out and party with you?

    I ended up being a total bitch to them, but it's because they kept PRESSURING ME and making ASSUMPTIONS about me just because I'm quiet, and perhaps because now that I'm in my early 30's my idea of a good time is no longer randomly running off to get drunk or go out to a big club.

    It's like look - stop pressuring me. It makes me angry.

    It's funny, though, because I can actually be a lot of fun. I *will* hug people. I *will* get drunk and climb up on the roof. A couple of months ago I even jumped into an outdoor pool topless playing truth or dare. But don't pressure me to do that, or I will fucking lash out at you.

    Maybe I just hate when men pressure me, because I always suspect them of wanting something besides friendship when they start to act like that. I'm not some dumb young girl.

  3. #13
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    My reactions differ depending on whether someone's emotions are violating me, or whether someone is violating my emotions.

    An example of the former would be if, upon first meeting of someone, they immediately were incredibly huggy and telling me all about their deep and messed-up personal issues -- in which case I would mentally (and physically, if possible/polite) retreat from them as fast as possible, and then either contact them very rarely or never again. I'm only okay dealing with someone's issues if I already have a close relationship with them. Otherwise, I'm incapable of expressing the necessary amount of empathy -- because I need to know them to be empathetic instead of just overwhelmed and freaked out.

    Two examples of the latter:
    1) if a friend comes to me with a problem, asks me for help, doesn't make it easy for me when I try to gather necessary information (thereby making me do a lot of work in order to help them), then ignores all of my advice, or takes my advice and doesn't thank me or give me any credit. My response to that would be frustration -- and talking to them one-on-one about it. Expressing my need for recognition, and my unwillingness to feel like a tool to be used and thrown away. (Not that I would phrase it that way! but I'm just saying.)
    2) if someone keeps pushing and pushing at my Fi buttons, e.g. when I was debating with someone about if/how one should approach/help homeless people on the street; my feelings on the subject were defined by distrust in how they might use any money I give them (drugs? alcohol?), fear for my safety (schizophrenia?), and built-up guilt from walking past homeless people and never knowing what to do. The person I was debating (who I think is an xNTP) kept pushing and pushing and eventually, after she (jokingly) called me "heartless", I was this close to yelling "FUCK YOU!" at her but instead snapped "Okay, I can't have this conversation anymore. Let's just stop." (And I apologized, later, for snapping at her.)
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  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    My natural instinct is to extricate myself from the situation and create a lot of distance fast. However, not every situation allows for this.
    When it comes to situations where I cannot just make a quiet exit, like work, school, and family/friends/significant others, then I become direct, as I mentioned.

    Wording I use a lot is, "This [behavior] is unacceptable to me. It shows a lack of respect for me (or my time or effort or whatever)". I try to use the "I feel ___, when you ___" statements instead of the "You are ____" kind, but sometimes that's still too vague for dense people. I suppose I make it about the situation, so solving the problem is the focus, not assigning blame. I simply move past feelings & will phrase in clear terms of what I expect & will not tolerate, such as the "this is unacceptable" statement followed by a "in the future I expect/require" statement. Of course, I may be open to some compromise in meeting my needs & theirs.

    I'm usually freakishly calm & articulate in these moments. That's why I've never related to the spineless INFP stereotype. I admit I might be more patient prior to this point than others would be though; I give the benefit of the doubt, give them opportunity to change, etc, before I state my "no uncertain terms".

    People usually get very sheepish & apologetic or they go into denial because there's nowhere else to go when I call them out. If the latter is the case, then I may begin to see that the person is not someone I can have in my life; they basically have refused to respect me. Then I look to make longterm plans to sever ties with them.

    EDIT: Oh wait, I have to acknowledge that if I feel I am going to lose my temper, then I retreat so I can calm down & think it through. However, if someone is dumb enough to follow me or keep pushing me, then I may blow up. I only have this issue with family because they tend to be those people who won't drop it if they see you getting upset & retreating. They know my buttons, and I can have a bad temper ....
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    When it comes to situations where I cannot just make a quiet exit, like work, school, and family/friends/significant others, then I become direct, as I mentioned.

    Wording I use a lot is, "This [behavior] is unacceptable to me. It shows a lack of respect for me (or my time or effort or whatever)". I try to use the "I feel ___, when you ___" statements instead of the "You are ____" kind, but sometimes that's still too vague for dense people. I suppose I make it about the situation, so solving the problem is the focus, not assigning blame. I simply move past feelings & will phrase in clear terms of what I expect & will not tolerate, such as the "this is unacceptable" statement followed by a "in the future I expect/require" statement. Of course, I may be open to some compromise in meeting my needs & theirs.

    I'm usually freakishly calm & articulate in these moments. That's why I've never related to the spineless INFP stereotype. I admit I might be more patient prior to this point than others would be though; I give the benefit of the doubt, give them opportunity to change, etc, before I state my "no uncertain terms".

    People usually get very sheepish & apologetic or they go into denial because there's nowhere else to go when I call them out. If the latter is the case, then I may begin to see that the person is not someone I can have in my life; they basically have refused to respect me. Then I look to make longterm plans to sever ties with them.
    I definitely hear you on this on several levels. My problem is that I will try the direct path and I think, "yes! I have made contact!" And then they continue to do the same behavior... ... and that's when I start wanting to just get out of Dodge.

  6. #16
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I'm kind of ridiculous in this respect, it's one of my worst qualities. First of all, it's easy to be invaded emotionally. It doesn't seem that hard. All it takes is a little bit of feeling of out-of-control or vulnerability on my part and then the Fi reacts. I always retreat, stop talking. Sometimes I will physically walk away from a person invading me with an emotion related question, (romantic) and have had to tell more than one person to stop following me around, it's not going to work. Normally I need to be physically alone in a room, and if not, my brain just freezes and I stop talking completely. I've had people asking me "yes" or "no" questions and given the cold shoulder. I am very untrusting and self-preserving in this respect.
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  7. #17
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    @Saturned
    I have that problem with family the most, because severing ties is a very extreme option with them (I imagine marriage is the same). It took me years to get them to stop invalidating my feelings because they couldn't even fathom why anyone would feel as I do about certain things. In the process, I became a lot more articulate about my feelings. It's still a hurdle though.

    One thing I do is call them out on the invalidation itself. I remind them I am ME, not "everyone else", and that I already made a request that they agreed to & that they've violated it yet again. Sometimes I have to do this over & over & over. It's frustrating, but I've made headway over time. I also get them to accept stuff they cannot understand; I'll tell them they don't have to get it, but they do need to respect it.

    I admit I withhold from family when they repeatedly cross a boundary (ie. I won't tell my mom much about my life). I don't know if this is healthy (probably not), but it's like a "time out" for a naughty kid. I don't know how else to bang it into their heads that they've done wrong. It's like, there HAS to be consequences for some people.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #18
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    It depends, if it's someone I'm invested in emotionally/romantically, I'll let them know how I feel so we can do something constructive about the situation.

    If it's a work person whose habits are eroding or annoying rather than strongly violating, I'll distance myself (also emotionally). I do definitely retreat when the annoyance builds up. Anyone that directly violates key principles of mine (yeah, trying to pressure me into doing something), I'll be very direct about it.

    I have a hard time not taking people's feelings seriously when they are leaking over into my sphere, but I've learnt I'm not anyone's emotional mule and some reactions are simply not justified and I try not to feel "addressed" by the emotions behind them. Particularly with some Fe users giving them what they want (saying it's your fault, or buffering their self-esteem, validating the overreaction) after some disproportionate reaction will have them think something along the lines of "reaction x will get me treat y, I should do this more often!" or "she comes back, therefore she doesn't mind [crap thing done]"...this logic is foreign to me and it took me a while to pick up on it.

    I also try not to feel upset about the fact that they "would do that to me" in the first place (the invading, the principle the implied lack of respect and consideration - maybe that's the Fi version of "I can't believe you would say that I hurt you").

  9. #19
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    A pictorial representation:
    That or use invisible giant headphones to tune 'em out.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #20
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    1) withdraw and retreat.
    2) inteact with them in a very Te mode if I need to be around them

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