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  1. #61
    Ginkgo
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    I have a plan involving cyanide. Wanna hear?

  2. #62
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Oh, I can hurt my S.O.'s feelings, and in so many words, he asks me to stop. And he's an entj 8w9 lol...... He tells me I am "mean" and that I hurt his feelings all the time. He doesn't point out exactly when, but at that time, he will tell me I am being "mean". I can tell sometimes that I have hurt his feelings. I think regardless of Fe or Fi, people have their limits, and they get their feelings hurt.
    I think as an Fe user, I feel like I go out of my way sometimes not to offend, so when others don't do it, I think it's rude. That doesn't mean that I think they should stop however, because I cross lines too. It might pee me off a wee little bit, so I do it back to them. If I don't do it back to them, I feel as if I've given away too much, so I make sure I do. It's like, "If you can play this game, so can I", because I know that probably what I've said or done DOES affect them in some way. It seems to work over time to help an Fi see what they are doing to others, because they begin to see that feelings really are in-part, the other's responsibility, as well as their own. I'm sure no Fi-user could want anyone they love to tell them what a fatass they are, for instance, lol......and yes, it would more-than-likely, hurt their feelings to do so. Feelings are shared responsibilities, regardless.

    As far as the mother described in this thread, I don't see her as simply an Fe-user. She is controlling.... extremely. And anyone who would put up with this, has issues of their own, imho. It's like this woman is buying her daughter's life, choosing everything her wedding is, and manipulating the situation, or at least, trying her damnedest to. I don't know how far she is getting, but it looks like pretty far. The daughter seems to be a manipulated pawn. The mother, while she may be well-meaning, seems to want this wedding to be a vision that's in her head, and not what the daughter wants at all.

    I think this whole wedding situation is much less an Fe thing than just a dysfunctional thing. I wouldn't so easily blame this mess on Fe lol...... or attribute their behaviors to their use of Fe. While some F's annoy me as well, it's not because of their use of Fe. It's the way they are choosing to use it. Same with Fi users.....
    yeah of course...when i said that i'm a pretty considerate person i said that because i am mindful of others feelings but i don't/won't bottle mine to protect them..like...example...someone asked a favor of me...it was the night before my day off...my job is hard and long with super early mornings and it's stressful and wears me out...i have very little energy to do things at the end of the day so i put stuff off until my day off...and she calls the night before and asks for a favor that would require me to go to her house super early in the morning and spend all day there...my reaction was ahhhh...you gotta ask me sooner!!! i have a lot of stuff to do but if you bring her here i can watch her...and...i'm afraid this offended her fe...which sucks because i feel like i should be allowed to be honest about how i feel and let her know that she really should ask sooner so that i may plan accordingly....a fe user...or the ones i know would likely just say yes of course np but then bitch about it to someone else....that offends me and my fi to death.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #63
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    The situation you described in the op happens too often in various forms of sincerity especially when family traditions clash. There's only one solution: do your own thing, eventually she will accept that. Make it clear that it is your wedding not hers, search the confrontation and let it clash.

    if you continue to give in or make things her way that wont ever get better. Some people are so unhappy with themselves that they constantly need to change others
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #64
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    I apologize in advance if I come off as a judgmental or if I seem like I am using stereotypes... that being said....

    I CANNOT TAKE FE!!!!!!!!! (in ESFJs)

    I can't take it anymore. I can't win. Ever. I can't defend anyone else's point of views if it is different than the Fe-user's POV. This is ridiculous and it is rude on their part to pass judgement on EVERYONE ELSE and their opinions.

    One person does an act of kindness
    "WELL, IF THEY WANTED TO DO A NICE GUESTURE, THEY SHOULD HAVE DOES TTTHHHISSSS INSTEAD OF THAT. THAT IS JUST CHEAP AND DEMEANING"

    Honestly, what is going on in their heads? Do they think that they are better and more classy than everyone? Do they have this competitiveness going on and they just want to beat out everyone? What is it??

    I'm planning an wedding (I'm an ENFP marrying and ISTJ) and my future in laws are ISxJ and ISTJ.

    The ISTJs are very conservative and if they do anything that reflects their Christian-conservative outlook, my ESFJ mother calls it rude/unclassy/cheap.

    Example: They don't drink alcohol so they'd prefer there to be a cash bar to help monitor that amount of drunk people / why would they pay hundreds of dollars for an open bar that a majority of their guests won't touch?

    It makes sense to me, but explaining a different outlook to my ESFJ mom is ridiculous. How can I make her understand that not everyone is like her. Not everyone drinks or celebrates the same way she does.

    ** And there is more frustrations when I try and voice my opinion about anything that has to do with my ideas for my own wedding... she doesn't agree with anything I say, anything that is different than what she's seen 30 years ago is viewed as TACKY.

    I could go on and on. I am sorry if I am being rude but I am at my wit's end with her Fe. I need to understand it. Someone help me find a way to talk to her and get her to see someone else's point of view
    you beat an EFJ who is being a guilt trippy bitch by asking them a barrage of questions
    "Why"
    "Okay, than why that?"
    "Why did you say it like that?"
    "what does that even mean?"
    "why is that any of you business in the first place?"
    or
    "don't you think you're being rude for slapping a label on them so quickly"

    if they give a wishy washy answer then respond
    "what does that mean?"
    "be more specific"
    or
    "that's not actionable"

    if they resort to guilt tripping, you can respond with
    "that's irrelevant. answer my question please"

    PS: this has about an 80% success rate (based on 100s of field observations and split variable tests I conducted during high school to learn how to get people to leave me the fuck alone lol)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  5. #65
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    i agree with oa totally...in that she may be right about peoples expectations but if it were me it wouldn't sway me a bit. i think it's totally rude of guests to judge or to have certain expectations. i view it as completely selfish and i'd find it insulting if my mother cared more about the guests wishes than my own. i like to think of myself as a pretty considerate person but i'm beginning to think i define it much differently than a fe user would. i think it's rude to expect people to walk on eggshells around you and take responsibility for your emotions. they think it's rude not to...or something....it bugs me.
    my thoughts exactly. expecting someone to be responsible for one's own emotions is a step up from rude, it borders on parasitic
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    SEE-Fi
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    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  6. #66
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    The problem is that your mom's guests are drunks and the in-laws guests are not. LOL

    Not entirely serious but there's probably a grain of truth to this.

    And the point of me pointing this pointed point out, is that both sets of parents seem "rude", if we're defining rude as pushing your own agenda on others who don't share it.

    But, of course, determining who gets the rudest parent award is not really productive. Not to mention that, regardless of MBTI type, this is a common problem you are having (i.e. Is it MY wedding or <insert person who is paying> wedding???).

    I wouldn't bother with welling up with anger, developing disdain for my mother, arguing, or putting on any guilt trips. Instead, I would detach just a tiny bit from these things because the wedding is probably going to be beautiful and nice no matter what, get used to the fact that my parents and my in-laws are vastly different and will likely never understand each other or be best of friends (<this is a good thing, actually) and try to keep any sparks from turning into fires until we can finally get to the big day.

    In the meantime, perhaps you can suggest substituting another expense as a good way to remedy this. For example, instead of paying for the cash bar, which your non-drinking in laws may have a biased against already, have them pay for the flowers or something else that you feel is equivalent in cost. You'll have to come up with a creative reason as to why you want to switch costs though.

    Also if you're worried about your mom not understanding your future husband, don't expect her to change the values she's had all her life. It just won't happen. All you and he can do is consistently prove to her over time, through actions, that he's good to you and a good person, even if she doesn't understand your methods and goes about things differently.

  7. #67
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    It's just...it seems like practically everyone has an ESFJ mother. (I sure as hell don't...she's probably an INTJ!). I remember reading one of those threads surveying people's families types and practically every mother was an ESFJ. Is this possible?

    In at least one enneagram book it commented that women with a family and over a certain age tend to test type 2 and this was something to look out for. I thought this seemed a bit condescending/stereotypical, but it pointed out that this was how a lot of women had been socialized. I can't help wondering if there isn't something similar at work with all these ESFJ mothers. Plus, it seems like a convenient box to put an annoying mother in. Like everyone puts their annoying bosses in the convenient ESTJ box.
    There's a high correlation between 2s and ESFJs, and yes, ESFJs are the most common female type and they are more likely to breed than many other types so there's a good chance your mother is one. Sometimes stereotypes exist for a reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I was just saying, literally, how I loathe Fe. As a function, it doesn't even make sense. It is poison, contradicts itself, and shouldn't be allowed to exist.
    Sometimes, a thing can be both rude AND true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #68
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    If everything is rude, then nothing is
    the formless thing which gives things form!
    Found Forum Haiku Project


    Positive Spin | your feedback welcomed | Darker Criticism

  9. #69
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    If everything is rude, then nothing is
    Clearly "nothing" is rude. If you cared you'd do SOMETHING to show it!

  10. #70
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    yeah of course...when i said that i'm a pretty considerate person i said that because i am mindful of others feelings but i don't/won't bottle mine to protect them..like...example...someone asked a favor of me...it was the night before my day off...my job is hard and long with super early mornings and it's stressful and wears me out...i have very little energy to do things at the end of the day so i put stuff off until my day off...and she calls the night before and asks for a favor that would require me to go to her house super early in the morning and spend all day there...my reaction was ahhhh...you gotta ask me sooner!!! i have a lot of stuff to do but if you bring her here i can watch her...and...i'm afraid this offended her fe...which sucks because i feel like i should be allowed to be honest about how i feel and let her know that she really should ask sooner so that i may plan accordingly....a fe user...or the ones i know would likely just say yes of course np but then bitch about it to someone else....that offends me and my fi to death.
    Oh no, that's crazy........
    I have Fe, but yea, I think some of the F's can get out of hand, and they have to be tamed. ha.
    I'm the type that would not answer the phone.
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