[INFP] non-"artsy" INFP's

[Scott N Denver]

someone on this forum wrote a comment to the effect of "pity the INTP who isn't good at math/science and the INFP who isn't artsy" to something close to that.

As a clearly not-artsy INFP I am curious about other people thoughts on this matter, and their experiences with non-artsy INFP's.

I think non-artsy INFP are much more likely to be not seen as INFP's by others, and to "camouflage" as perhaps INTP, ISFP, maybe ISTP, or whatever else.


I personally qualify as what Lenore Thomson describes as "zenlike or otherworldly", and I can't be the only one.

 

[Eckhart]

No, I can relate to that too. I don't feel really artsy either. I always hated drawing and painting, I never tried to make something in music (although I sometimes play with the thought to try myself out here, but I didn't learn an instrument) , I am not very keen on poetry. I don't try to fulfill myself in creative writing either, although I used to really like to write short stories when I was younger, and when I "had to" be a bit creative in writing later at school, I never had a problem with it, even though I didn't really like doing it, I just did what I had to do. My writing style is maybe not everyones taste either though.

On the other hand I think creativity can show in many ways, and I think I have the potential for finding creative ideas in certain areas. Just maybe not in the typical artsy fields. Or I just never really tried to fulfill myself in those ways Or I am just boring ^^

My studying field is a bit uncommon for that reason for an INFP as well. While apparently you find INFPs mostly studying psychology, literature or philosophy etc., I study business informatics and had also at least for some while some affinity to mathematics. But I developed also a like for philosophy (which was also my alternative thought for studying) and social sciences.

 

[Seymour]

I relate somewhat to this—although I'd call myself more calm, rather than generally zenlike. I've often felt on the border between technical/aesthetic and mainstream/alternative in a number of ways.

When I was younger I often wished I had a distinct overriding talent that would make my path clear, rather than being "pretty good" in several areas. Nowadays, I feel like I've found a reasonable niche for myself, although with some compromises made along the way. I suspect I would benefit from a better means of creative self-expression, but my perfectionism makes that difficult.

I work with some other technically oriented INFPs, and I think they do the same camouflaging thing you describe to some degree. I think I come across as somewhere between INTP and INFP, but I think my affection for people leaks out in subtle ways.

 

[Scott N Denver]

^About "zen" and "calm"

It's funny, yeah I think zen is "intense" [seriously, have you seen zen monks?] but most people seem to associate "zen " with tranquility/meditation/insight, and lots of spas and stuff use zen in their name. At work one lady had her "den of "zen, where you weren't supposed to frown.

I have practiced zen, quite a bit, and clearly it is "intense", and plenty of people have said I should "smile more."

Scott is like the INFP's who are like "I want to move to India and practice yoga." Most INFP's aren't that extreme, but some clearly feel that calling.

I was always good at math, and by extension science when it involved math, but had a lot of the eastern philosophy and the martial arts angle going on. People have called said I'm like a "zen warrior" and a "warrior monk", and plenty of people also called me a "scholar and a gentleman."

I'm nowhere near "artistic" or "fashionable/hip/trendy" or "fancy clothes" or "attitude" enough to ever show up on the Bravo channel.

 

[Santosha]

What exactly do you mean by non-artsy?

I am not an artist in the traditional sense, I never spent tremendous time drawing, painting, sculpting, and I've never had anything published. But I don't see artsy as being an artist, more like one who appreciates art, tremendously. And I do fall into that camp. It doesn't matter if it is film, music, photography, theatre, art exhibits or body paint festivals, I usually dig it. I mean, this is really opening up a big can of "what is art?" and then eveyone argues and bickers, nitpicks semantics, and eventually all meaning is lost. But the way that I perceive art, I would be hard pressed to find an INFP that doesn't appreciate some angle of it more than your average-joe.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I always thought that artsy INFPs were more likely to be confused with ISFPs. I've heard people make comments which seem to imply that any sense of aesthetics implies you're an ISFP & not INFP (which I entirely do not agree with). I've related more to the INTP attitude than the ISFP one as presented in type profiles, when it comes to what "kind" of INFP I am. I'm more inclined to have a pedantic know-it-all NT side emerge than any SP hedonistic side. I can be an empath, but it's hidden under a crusty exterior in person.

I've known one older INFP woman who I'd not classify as artsy, but to me she fits the empath role. I might call her "otherworldly"; she has a strongly evident spiritual bent and seems, er, "spacey". I notice these types are more frequently enneagram 9s.

I have a feeling some INFP 5s may not consider themselves artsy either, but I imagine there is a philosophical side that has its roots in Fi, not Ti. I do wonder what means these people "express" with; maybe it's more directly communicating their feelings via theory or something.

Personally, I think I'd classify as artsy though, and it's partly why INTP profiles never quite fit. I am pretty good at math, and my math & science teachers in school made it a point to let me know I was "special" for a girl in that way (gotta love that "for a girl" tag). I also do like some math & people-related science, but I've never had an affinity for it the way I do the arts & language/culture, and it's because of the feeling aspect, no doubt. My need to express feelings indirectly is more definitive of my personality than my actual abilities. I find the arts to be a more personal outlet, hence my draw to it. I did find in art school that I had an advantage over others (many of whom seemed ISFP-ish), as many were talented artists but lacked the book smarts I had. Outside of school however, I think these people have street smarts I could sorely use.

I admit, I tend to associate INFPs with being more bookish/academic & analytical than our ISFP sensory brethren. Any thoughts on that? I know there are INFPs out there who do not like literature or reading at all, & also ones who identify more with being personable/warm than analytical/cerebral.

 

[011235813]

Going with [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION]'s post, I think there's a third category, the cold INFPs who are more likely to be mistyped as INTPs.

 

[SpankyMcFly]

I am an INFP. I'm not artsy at all. I only know one other INFP, he is artsy.

 

[Seymour]

Slightly a derail, but:

^About "zen" and "calm"

It's funny, yeah I think zen is "intense" [seriously, have you seen zen monks?] but most people seem to associate "zen " with tranquility/meditation/insight, and lots of spas and stuff use zen in their name. At work one lady had her "den of "zen, where you weren't supposed to frown.

I have practiced zen, quite a bit, and clearly it is "intense", and plenty of people have said I should "smile more."

Scott is like the INFP's who are like "I want to move to India and practice yoga." Most INFP's aren't that extreme, but some clearly feel that calling.

That's interesting. I was initially turned off by things Zen and Buddhist because the first few practicing people I met were either very anxious, or self-centered jerks, or both. Since then, after meeting a doctrinaire Unitarian and extremely persnickety pagan/faerie, I've come to believe that many people gravitate toward a faith/practice/religion/philosophy because it offers something they are desperately lacking.

Consequently, I've only recently dipped my toes into meditation; what I know could fit in a thimble. I can see the Zen could have great intensity of focus and perception... it does seem like non-identification with emotion should lead to a kind of detachment (if near full perception of emotions as they arise). In what other ways is Zen intense? (pardon my ignorance)

I was always good at math, and by extension science when it involved math, but had a lot of the eastern philosophy and the martial arts angle going on. People have called said I'm like a "zen warrior" and a "warrior monk", and plenty of people also called me a "scholar and a gentleman."

I'm nowhere near "artistic" or "fashionable/hip/trendy" or "fancy clothes" or "attitude" enough to ever show up on the Bravo channel.

Even for being, gay, I'm totally not Bravo worthy. My trainer teased me the other day by painting a picture of me on an interior decorating show. His script was on the order of "Me (walking into a room and taking it in calmly): Umm... (long pause, standing there like a lump) why is that chair there?" I'm fabulous challenged and not nearly emotive enough for that kind of thing.

 

[William K]

I think this has been quoted or posted somewhere before
http://personalityjunkie.com/2009/12/28/infp-personality-type-careers-majors-jobs-interests/

Artistic and Social is where a large number of INFPs would fall I guess, but I'm clearly in the Investigative and on the outside probably would be INTP-ish. That said, I do have a need for a creative outlet despite my horrible art/drawing skills. When I was in school my humans always end up looking like robots

When I think of artsy though, the thing that comes to mind are people who go to art galleries or hang out at the Sundance movie festivals

 

[Eckhart]

I think this has been quoted or posted somewhere before
http://personalityjunkie.com/2009/12/28/infp-personality-type-careers-majors-jobs-interests/

Artistic and Social is where a large number of INFPs would fall I guess, but I'm clearly in the Investigative and on the outside probably would be INTP-ish. That said, I do have a need for a creative outlet despite my horrible art/drawing skills. When I was in school my humans always end up looking like robots

When I think of artsy though, the thing that comes to mind are people who go to art galleries or hang out at the Sundance movie festivals

Yeah, if I go by that list, I fall into the realistic ("Computer science, software design, programming, systems analyst") and maybe a bit in the investigative (social sciences, philosophies) areas more. Before I really got into MBTI, I judged more my outward apperance rather than my inner life, and there I might appear in situations more INTP-like as well

 

[sqnh]

I appreciate art and aesthetics, but I'm definitely not an artist. I don't really like what I perceive to be meaningless art. Kind of a waste.

I do like writing and languages, but I'm much better at the mechanics of language and literature analysis rather than creative writing. I'm definitely in the other-worldly category. I'm doing my grad work in biblical studies.

Most of my career was actually in IT, copy-editing, and report writing. Not exactly creative, but I found pleasure in interpretative nuances. I was never a programmer, but I've played with sql quite a bit I can see how programming might fit into an INFP's natural semantic/syntax skills. I am convinced that INFPs deeply encode experiences in the brain, maybe more so than most - we semantically index things a little different in our minds than others - we form relationships between meanings and senses and so forth. I think a good understanding of how we INFPs think narratively would lend itself as a great intellectual skill to programmers. Perhaps even mathematicians - we see patterns and meanings where others don't; the only thing that changes really are the languages/characters.

 

[chickpea]

like a lot of other people have said, i very much love and appreciate art in all forms, but i don't really have any talent for it at all. and that's including creative writing as well, it's always been easy for me to write good essays for school, and i like writing diary type entries to get things off my chest, but i don't write stories or poems and never really have the desire to. i'm good at expanding on ideas or improving things, but not coming up with good, creative ideas out of thin air as much. this is especially out of type, because i'm a 4 too, and every description is artist this, artist that and i can't really relate.

 

[bunnyhighbrow]

I like what someone else said about people expressing themselves through expounding or developing a certain theory. Whilst I am creative in an arty way, I sometimes have 'flashes of insight' which are causing me to develop a set of ideas about art/culture and I find they are expressive on a very personal level when broken down structurally (and in a primitive Si kind of way as well).

There seems to be two sides to INFP. The grander, more sensual type of I have to express myself!, and the one who enjoys linguistics or coding, who enjoys the micro-expression that comes with translating or logical writing.

If an INFP doesn't make art then they would still appreciate art, because though I am artistic I do it in the spirit of exploring the wider meaning of itself - the opposite of an ISFP artist, who is more likely to just say 'I'm creative and I like expressing myself' and leave it at that. Knowing of and appreciating diverse artforms is probably characteristic of us, because we do like to build up experiences and recognise that each one has its own value, and that they are all continuous with eachother.

 

[sqnh]

micro-expression - I like this definition. It is creative and artistic, but not in a way that's easy to explain. For instance, I am a native English speaker, but know biblical Hebrew, some Arabic, and right now taking Greek. In Hebrew, there is a very visual pattern one manipulates much like a rubik's cube when attempting to form words. However, on another level, knowing Hebrew opens up the meaning of scripture on a whole different level since many Hebrew words are much less specific than English or even Greek words. Sometimes I will be reading a word and will realize it has 6 or so different meanings, some of which are a whole lot more "zen" and mystical than one reads in the English translation. I get the pleasure of picking my own translated adventure! In these moments I feel pure awe at the poetry of it - but that's not something that I think is as visually apparent as, say, a painting. I think the feeling of taking part in creation is the same though, even if the medium is different. Ok, enough other-worldly rambling.

 

[BAJ]

I like art. I have large folio books and several books on artists.

I like to make art. But I can't make a living at it. My art is expressionistic, surreal or abstract. Most people wouldn't buy it. I've only sold realistic drawings of people.

My career is biology and fish farming. Right now I work with koi. In koi, you sort fish according to their color and quality of pattern. There is a great amount of artistry in it, and we keep detailed records of breeding, photographing all the babies and maintaining databases on breeding pairs. According to the quality, we decide whether to sell a fish now or keep it.

It's like looking for treasure.

On top of this layer, I know dozens of customers, maybe hundreds. I remember what we sold to whom, and especially whether they liked it or didn't like it.

 

[sqnh]

It's like looking for treasure.

This is a great way of describing it. In all of my jobs I always find a way - even if it's obscure - to seek beauty, or seek a "treasure". Maybe INFPs (are you one) are metaphysical treasure hunters? Your job sounds lovely.

 

[Santosha]

On top of this layer, I know dozens of customers, maybe hundreds. I remember what we sold to whom, and especially whether they liked it or didn't like it.

I find that impressive BAJ, I wish that I could have more personable encounters with the customers I work with. Unfortunately I work for an airline, and deal with literally hundreds of people daily. I agree that art can be seen and expressed in all facets of life. And I think this is why INFP's are considered artsy - because if there was ever a type that could take the most common, mundane, ordinary object and find a way to perceive great value or meaning behind it, it would be the INFP. In that sense, INFP's are "artsy".

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPf-BOnuZ0"].[/YOUTUBE]

Yes, I too smirk at the dramatic undertone to this scene, but what better example! regardless of the cliche-emo side.

 

[BAJ]

I find that impressive BAJ, I wish that I could have more personable encounters with the customers I work with. .

Sometimes I meet one and tour the farm. However, I have difficulty with faces sometimes. Mostly it's feedback from the main office in the form of notes attached to invoices. I mostly work alone, quietly by myself. Occasionally I have to do direct sales, but I don't like it as much.

For example, an important client came to visit, but I didn't recognize them, but once I did, I remembered what they bought. Oh yeah! You bought brown and blue fish three years ago. I remember the fish clearly, but not the person.

 

[Stanton Moore]

I know an INFP who doesn't 'make' art. but she sorta 'is' art. Know what I mean?