User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 78

  1. #1
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    HUMR
    Enneagram
    6 sx
    Socionics
    iNfp Ni
    Posts
    1,521

    Default INFP's - Help me clarify something?

    So it is often said that INFP's are guided by moral code. And I know that alot of threads have popped up regarding what that moral code looks like (and ofcourse its unique to each individual INFP, though there seems to be some universal constants, like not harming people, being a good person, being humble, etc.) And I was just wondering...

    What thoughts do INFP's have on moral nihilism? Do INFP's reject the notion? If you think that moral nihilism might be true, then how do you go about framing your morals in life?

    It's a hard one, I know. So any info you relay at all will be quite appreciated.

    Oh, and here is the definition of moral nihilism I'm going by:

    Moral nihilism (also known as ethical nihilism or amoralism) is the meta-ethical view that nothing is moral or immoral. For example, a moral nihilist would say that killing someone, for whatever reason, is neither inherently right nor inherently wrong. Morality may simply be a kind of make-believe, a complex set of rules and recommendations that represents nothing real and is seen as a human creation.[1]
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  2. #2
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    394

    Default

    Morals are a division of personal ethics. They are always subjective.

    Not harming other people is, in my framework, "morally good". I don't like it myself, therefore I can extrapolate and assume that other humans, like me, wouldn't enjoy it. Therefore, I sympathise with those who agree with that view. Do I think that someone that beats up a mugger is "wrong"? That sort of judgement would be a bit worthless. I could say that he should have sought a peaceful resolution, but what do I know about the circumstances?

    I try not to judge the people involved moral dilemmas, but I do judge the outcomes, if only to better enhance my own understanding of such situations.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  3. #3
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    ^ This seems more like moral relativism than moral nihilism to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    What thoughts do INFP's have on moral nihilism?
    I'm inclined to think its about one of 3 things:
    1) being too chicken or lazy to take a stand on anything
    2) assholes who want to justify treating people like crap
    3) moral trolling; using pseudo-intellectual BS to undermine everything others believe in purely for the sake of it

    Do INFP's reject the notion?
    I certainly do.

    I tend towards moral objectivism (but not strictly absolutism) - I think there universal morals, albeit very generalised ones, that hold true no matter what. I am tolerant of others and do invest a lot of effort in imagining the reasoning of people who do things that are generally accepted to be wrong. However, there is a difference between understanding and justifying an action.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #4

    Default

    Southern Kross says it all.
    Dirt Farmer

  5. #5
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    HUMR
    Enneagram
    6 sx
    Socionics
    iNfp Ni
    Posts
    1,521

    Default

    Thanks to the 3 responders so far!

    I wan't to clarify that I personally, haven't taken a stand on moral nihilism.. but I find it a bit fascinating. And I think that if I adopted this idealogy (which I could- I'm not sure) it would leave me with a trillion more questions than answers. Which doesn't make it appealing at all.

    But I am having a hard time with the following concept: Either objective moral truth exists, or it doesn't.

    So I thought.. who better to pose this question to, but the INFP's?

    @Southern Kross - Can you give me an example of a universal moral? What about objective moral?
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  6. #6
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    HUMR
    Enneagram
    6 sx
    Socionics
    iNfp Ni
    Posts
    1,521

    Default

    I also wanted to add that I don't really think people that subscribe to moral nihilism do this to be cowardess, lazy, or mean. Some might. I think there are people that really have a highly objective framework created (one that I struggle to understand actually) so I was hoping you guys might be able to shed light. I know there has to be an INFP out there that has studied moral nihilism a great deal.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Thanks to the 3 responders so far!

    I wan't to clarify that I personally, haven't taken a stand on moral nihilism.. but I find it a bit fascinating. And I think that if I adopted this idealogy (which I could- I'm not sure) it would leave me with a trillion more questions than answers. Which doesn't make it appealing at all.

    But I am having a hard time with the following concept: Either objective moral truth exists, or it doesn't.

    So I thought.. who better to pose this question to, but the INFP's?

    @Southern Kross - Can you give me an example of a universal moral? What about objective moral?
    It is a matter of scope I suppose. The farther out, the less we know, and the less "truth" we can apply. It just makes me sad to think about it all. Universal morals would apply only to humanity for humanity, and as SK said, loosely. Heavily situational as well.
    Dirt Farmer

  8. #8
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheStarchDefenders View Post
    Southern Kross says it all.
    Ditto.

    I don't think I could articulate it better...I certainly could do it in a more long-winded fashion, but I'll spare you all .
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #9
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Southern Kross - Can you give me an example of a universal moral? What about objective moral?
    I knew you were going to ask me that...

    Well, I don't exactly have them written out like the 10 commandments. I know them more instinctive terms and perhaps aren't the best at explaining them without a great deal of thought (so go easy on me). Some examples:

    - do not harm others, UNLESS you have no choice but to do so in defense of yourself or others
    - treat others with basic respect/civility, until they prove to be unworthy of it
    - do not lie for personal gain, self-preservation, or to protect those who have done wrong
    - do not belittle or discriminate against others for possessing different spiritual beliefs, or for aspects of themselves that they cannot help nor change

    That's about the best I can do for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I also wanted to add that I don't really think people that subscribe to moral nihilism do this to be cowardess, lazy, or mean. Some might. I think there are people that really have a highly objective framework created (one that I struggle to understand actually) so I was hoping you guys might be able to shed light. I know there has to be an INFP out there that has studied moral nihilism a great deal.
    Maybe I sounded nastier than I meant to be, but I see little purpose in any sort of nihilisim (pun unintended ). I simply find it irritating to be told that, all is meaningless, there are no universal truths, everything is relative and subjective etc etc. It's missing the point because there is no practical application for such thinking. It fails to guide us in, or answer the questions we have about, how to live our lives. In fact, it seeks to preclude any useful moral thought, debate or discussion. Basically to me it resembles this:

    Conflicted person: What do you think is the right thing to do in this situation?
    Moral nihilist: There is no 'right' or 'wrong'. These concepts are mere human constructions that are arbitrarily imposed on individuals by society.
    Conflicted person: Okaaay... but what should I do?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #10
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    ^ This seems more like moral relativism than moral nihilism to me
    Yeah, I was making the point that I don't believe in moral nihilism. That was sort of implied in my post but I should have pointed it out. I blame my fatigue at the time of posting for this oversight.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

Similar Threads

  1. [INFP] Help me survive INFP Silent Treatment!
    By lithasblot in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-08-2015, 12:56 PM
  2. [INFP] Please help me understand an INFP
    By Saslou in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 02-07-2010, 04:38 PM
  3. [INFP] DARNED ESFPs and your caring! [Help me INFP]
    By Koocoomoo in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-10-2009, 02:40 AM
  4. Replies: 110
    Last Post: 05-03-2009, 12:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO