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[INFJ] Dear INFJ Gentlemen, you are NOT ESTPs... So quit acting like it!

Esoteric Wench

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"Dear INFJ Gentlemen, you are NOT ESTPs... So quit acting like it!"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Let me be the first to point out that the above statement does not apply to all INFJ gentlemen. And the ones it does apply to, it doesn't apply all the time. Nonetheless, I feel like it has to be said.

I've seen several INFJ gentlemen in my acquaintance act like the most obnoxious... well like really obnoxious ESTPs. (No offense to ESTPs. I'm not talking about a normal, mentally-healthy ESTP.) I'm talking about people acting out their shadow functions. According to Jung, everyone has a shadow aspect to their personality that consists of repressed weaknesses, shortcomings, and instincts. For an INFJ, their shadow functions are embodied in an ESTP's dominant functions.

Some - but not all - of the behavior I've noticed includes blatant womanizing and a really annoying BMOC (big-man-on-campus) attitude. It's sort of like they are trying so hard... too hard... to not be the sweet, sensitive, quiet guys they were born to be.

I've often thought that INFJ men were dealt a tough hand. In fact, our culture teaches men to be as un-INFJ as possible doesn't it? That's gotta be a real mind f*ck to the heterosexual male INFJ mindset.

The same could be said for all NF males. But I think that INFJ and INFP males have a particularly tough time of it. But I've only noticed this "shadow embracing" pattern in INFJ males. (Admittedly my anecdotal evidence is based on a small sample set. There are so few INFJ males out there.)

This won't be the first thread on how one struggles with being an NF male. And it won't be the last. I guess I was hoping for advice on how to be a good friend to my INFJ male friends when they are feeling the weight of society's expectations on them. Up until this point, the only thing I can think of is to whack 'em on the back of the head in the way Gibbs does to DiNozzo on NCIS.
 

SilkRoad

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How sure are you that they actually are INFJs? That would be my first question. It seems weird that there'd be a bunch of INFJ men running around in extreme shadow mode.
 

Randomnity

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^^that was my first thought as well. I've never really agreed with the shadow mode stuff, with the possible exception of extremely unhealthy (i.e. very rare) people.
 

uncommonentity

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I know INFJs who've bedded more women/men in one month than an estp does their entire life. It's the introverted intuition. They do have the absolute capability to be a complete and utter sociopath. They may never actually be ESTP but they sure as hell can pull off acting and getting the same or better results as one. Same with INTJs.

It's a dr jekyll and mr hyde scenario everytime. We both have the capacity to either be the nicest guy on the planet and raise hell on earth. I'm not sure why it bothers you so much though. I'll shed some light on the situation. Nothing an INTJ/INFJ male (or female as I do know some wild ones) does requires any 'trying' trust me on that one. There's no extra effort in being evil as there is being angelic. We're like angels with the capacity to crush skulls. You'll come to find we prefer rockin' it out on the angel side of things but we do crush a few skulls along the way. It's not so much denial as it is an ability. There's a reason our types are linked to serial killers and it's the ability to both charm and slay.
 

OrangeAppled

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Yeah, I see this..... I don't see them acting like ESTPs so much as wannabe SPs. They want to be seen as in-the-know, able to mentally/emotionally handle intense/difficult physical feats off the cuff, cultivating hobbies which are very "tangible". Whereas that seems natural in SPs, it seems contrived in them. I think this is especially common with INFJs males because of the pull of Fe to meet cultural standards & the male ideal. I see it waaaay less with female INFJs.

My INFJ definitely has a wannabe SP side. I've seen many SPs with a wannabe NJ side too. They tout their spirituality & try & seem deep, but it's cheesy. I think they probably make good suckers for NJ con-men. ;) :devil:

It's funny, because I DON'T see this with NPs & SJs so much. It seems that they are repelled by their inferior functions, but SPs & NJs are fascinated with theirs (and each other). Of course that is a generalization & does not hold true for all.
 

Thalassa

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I've seen an INFP on this site talk like that, I won't mention his name, but I want to push him down the stairs.

When men pretend to be what they *think* an ESTP is (not what an ESTP necessarily really is) they usually just come across as loser douchebags.

I usually am not sexually attracted to NF men anyway, but I'm not claiming that *only* NF men engage in this behavior. I guess any insecure introvert could, including an INTJ or INTP.

ISFJs, on the other hand, might be more inclined to mimic xSTJs, in my experience.
 

Antimony

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I've seen an ENFP act like that. Or ENFJ? Anyway, it is revolting, because I love NF guys.

On that note, I wonder what types tend to act like when they think they are being k00l.
 

Starry

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^^that was my first thought as well. I've never really agreed with the shadow mode stuff, with the possible exception of extremely unhealthy (i.e. very rare) people.

I never believed in this 'shadow-mode stuff' either because I had never witnessed it in myself or others...until...oddly enough...I saw it plain-as-day in an...INFJ male (of all things).

When under what I feel was extreme stress for him...a switch would flip...and he was no longer this awesome, thoughtful dude...but rather...like EW described and I think it fits...he took on this 'big-man-on-campus' type persona. His voice would become so loud...and he would be yucking-it-up with everyone...flirting with all the ladies in a contrived way...it was very bizarre and quite the sight to behold.
 
G

Ginkgo

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They'll do what they want and there's no way you can stop them; your struggles are delightful.
 

Thalassa

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It's not a matter of them doing what they want or people trying to stop them...at least not in my case. I just think it makes guys seem obnoxious and retarded, not attractive.

I'm not attracted to it, I think it's lame.

It's like watching some nerd try to emulate PUA.
 

Thalassa

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It's a system men can supposedly use to be a man ho, but I don't see how it works because it's so transparent to any grown woman who has any real experience with men, and/or has an IQ over 90.
 

iwakar

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"Dear INFJ Gentlemen, you are NOT ESTPs... So quit acting like it!"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Let me be the first to point out that the above statement does not apply to all INFJ gentlemen. And the ones it does apply to, it doesn't apply all the time. Nonetheless, I feel like it has to be said.

I've seen several INFJ gentlemen in my acquaintance act like the most obnoxious... well like really obnoxious ESTPs. (No offense to ESTPs. I'm not talking about a normal, mentally-healthy ESTP.) I'm talking about people acting out their shadow functions. According to Jung, everyone has a shadow aspect to their personality that consists of repressed weaknesses, shortcomings, and instincts. For an INFJ, their shadow functions are embodied in an ESTP's dominant functions.

Some - but not all - of the behavior I've noticed includes blatant womanizing and a really annoying BMOC (big-man-on-campus) attitude. It's sort of like they are trying so hard... too hard... to not be the sweet, sensitive, quiet guys they were born to be.

I've often thought that INFJ men were dealt a tough hand. In fact, our culture teaches men to be as un-INFJ as possible doesn't it? That's gotta be a real mind f*ck to the heterosexual male INFJ mindset.

The same could be said for all NF males. But I think that INFJ and INFP males have a particularly tough time of it. But I've only noticed this "shadow embracing" pattern in INFJ males. (Admittedly my anecdotal evidence is based on a small sample set. There are so few INFJ males out there.)

This won't be the first thread on how one struggles with being an NF male. And it won't be the last. I guess I was hoping for advice on how to be a good friend to my INFJ male friends when they are feeling the weight of society's expectations on them. Up until this point, the only thing I can think of is to whack 'em on the back of the head in the way Gibbs does to DiNozzo on NCIS.

Damn, how do you know so many? I know what to look for and I cant spot other INFJs in the wild to save my life.
 

entropie

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Ah I see,

I take proteins to become a man :D

scitec-whey-protein.jpg
 

Fidelia

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I'm with you on that iwaker! EJCC says they swarm around her though and Protean knows several, so maybe they hang around in clumps. I'm not sure if I've met another one in person or not.
 

mujigay

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I just think it's interesting that anyone found a male INFJ at all.

I know three female INFJs. Not a single male. Damn.
 

entropie

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From my "one day as an infp" perspective, I can tell that it is indeed not easy to survive in society as a man who may be more thoughtful. When you get older its easier to choose your friends, but especially in highschool and those times, you are basically a victim to all those bullies who wont ever leave Polk High. If you ward yourself off and cultivate a rough exterior, its no real escape cause you will out of insecurity have to shut off all your emotions, which does alienate you from people. If you tho still manage to be cool enough and funny enough that people still come to you, your emotions will be reflected in your actions; meaning what first was sensibility will turn into radicality. You'll turn into a danger to yourself and your decisions wont be rational, they will be emotional, volatile.

I like Jane Austen so much, because when I read Pride and Prejudice and Mr.Darcy said that his problem is making contact to people, I felt understood for the first time in my life, cause I have the same problem. This problem has equally been my problem and my savior, cause I have projected in all my life an inpenetrable aura of mystery that noone ever tested my manhood, but left me alone and was happy when I greeted nicely. When I had my time in which I took drugs intensly, I lost control of projecting an outer self and my inner self came more out in the open. It was being left unattend for some years very volatile and unstructured yet that didnt stop me to always say when I didnt liked a thing. When people suddenly found out that I had strong principles, the image of the cool guy broke into pieces and before I knew it, this so called friends had turned their backs on me, labeling me as oversensitive or insane.

There is no golden recipe to survive puberty or wise advice I could give thats a thing everyone has to figure out for themselves. You can just be there for those people and you dont need Dinosoing them like in Navy CIS that wont help them. Some ways people have to find alone, you can only be a guide.
 

Oaky

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INFJs acting like ESTPs? INFJs often act like almost all MBTI types simply as reflections to their surroundings. INFJ minds often like to work in a 'collage' or 'discoball' form in which they tend to adhere to their surroundings to acquire continuous harmony and sometimes the highest possible position within the situation. ESTPs are only the most apparent because they often stand out the highest most in the social realm and INFJs would of course, know this. This is not to say they don't have their limitations that pull them back but perhaps best for another conversation.
Judging by results received with their own descriptions of how their mind works, it mostly tends to be different versions of the same thing. INFPs would not often do this as they strive far more upon 'individuality' than reflective adherence.
 

OrangeAppled

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Thinking about how function roles could play out here....

The inferior may serve as an antagonist to the person's mind. An antagonist can be positive or negative, but either way it stirs one to act (or think differently, in this case).

Inferior Se in some INFJs leads them to reject Se-associated stuff as shallow or dull; they devalue that which they lack. My NFJ aunt fits this; she's enamored with being intellectual/cerebral & tends to unfairly see SPs as goofy & dense.

However, in other INFJs, they desire what they lack & try to cultivate some Se-esque qualities. However, it is not natural for them to use Se, it conflicts with Ni too much, and so they turn to Fe to cultivate these Se-esque qualities. This is mostly good. Fe provides balance, but Se does not; wielding the inferior too long can be bad.

An example: My INFJ is into cooking as a hobby. He tends to focus on getting the "best" ingredients, using the "right" method & tools, and perfecting the same recipe through repetition. It's so value-oriented it's hilarious, and these values are very externally sourced. Se-dom, IMO, tend to explore such things in the moment, spontaneously, with little concern for the "right" way as long as the end result is good. Not to say my INFJ doesn't enjoy the process, he does, but he's way more methodical about it than any SP I know. Frankly, I also think he likes the idea of these things more than anything...

Damn, how do you know so many? I know what to look for and I cant spot other INFJs in the wild to save my life.

When you're a female NFP, male NFJs come out of the woodwork. I don't know that many in relation to say, ISFJs, but I know more than one or two. It's likely we get often close enough to type them, but not necessarily close to some other types to be able to type them (ie. I have few, but certainly some notable, ESTJs in my life because I don't tend to get close to them).
 
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