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  1. #141
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    This is why everyone thinks I'm ESTP - because I'm not in a monastery praying for all the insulted/squashed insects in the world.
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
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    COCKBURN:

    http://sundrytimes.files.wordpress.c...tomic-bomb.jpg


  2. #142
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    No I'm not joking, and I do not believe that you've read Jung or Beebe.
    If you are not joking then this isnt funny anymore, its just sad.

    I have read up on Jung and Beebe, I also understood them, which seems to be the part you missed, running your eyes across the words doesnt mean you "read" read them fyi.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  3. #143
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    This excerpt from an old thread may be useful to the discussion:

    *I pared it down a bit here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cegorach
    The following is an excerpt from Naomi Quenk's book "Was That Really Me? How Everyday Stress Brings Out Our Hidden Personality"

    The Form of the Inferior Function

    INTJs and INFJs appear less likely than other Introverted types to get much pleasure from a lessening of introverted inhibitions, although some INTJ males describe becoming more extraverted in a positive, sociable way. An INFJ said he is surprisingly more extraverted, especially in the company of strangers; more expressive and less contained. Female Introverted Intuitive types mention increased sociability less frequently, possibly because they, like other women who are Introverts, are encouraged (or required) to develop social skills. However, for the most part, the obsessiveness and discomfort that accompany extraverting their Sensing function is experienced as overwhelmingly distressing for both male and female INTJs and INFJs.

    As dominant Introverted Intuition loses its position of primacy, INTJs and INFJs start to lose their characteristic wide-ranging, global perspective. Their field of operation narrows considerably, and their range of acknowledged possibilities becomes limited and idiosyncratic. They may make more factual mistakes and become careless with spelling and grammar. ... As their hold on their dominant and auxiliary functions further diminishes, the qualities of inferior Extraverted Sensing manifest in an obsessive focus on external data, overindulgence in sensual pleasures, and an adversarial attitude toward the outer world.

    Jung (1976a) incorporates the three qualities of inferior Extraverted Sensing (obsessive focus on external data, overindulgence in sensual pleasures, and an adversarial attitude toward the outer world) in the following comment:

    What the introverted intuitive represses most of all is the sensation of the object, and this colours his whole unconscious. It gives rise to a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality can best be described as an extraverted sensation type of a rather low and primitive order. Instinctuality and intemperance are the hallmarks of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence on sense-impressions. This compensates the rarefied air of the intuitive's conscious attitude. (p. 402)

    Dominant and Inferior Expressions of Extraverted Sensing

    As Dominant Function of: ESTPs and ESFPs
    - Focus on external data
    - Seeking sensual/aesthetic pleasure
    - Delight in the outer world

    As Inferior Function of: INTJs and INFJs
    - Obsessive focus on external data
    -Overindulgence in sensual pleasure
    - Adversarial attitude toward the outer world

    Obsessive Focus on External Data

    Effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types are open to the widest variety of information from the environment, the more the better for them. Fully experiencing the outside world is their greatest pleasure. For an INTJ or INFJ in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, data from the outside world can seem overwhelming. Facts and details in the world demand the attention of the Introverted Intuitive type in the grip, so he or she obsesses about them. This may be experienced by both INTJs and INFJs as a state of intensity and drive. Their attempts to control the details in their environment are often expressed in such activities as feverishly cleaning the house, moving furniture, and organizing records and other materials. They may show an adamant concern about minute details and an unrelenting effort to control everything in their immediate vicinity.

    A common focus, particularly for INTJ and INFJ women, can be an aspect of their physical appearance. They may become convinced that they have prominent skin blemishes, that others are noticing that they don't dress very well, or that they look fat. In combination with the overindulgence manifestation described below, a powerful effect can occur.


    Overindulgence in Sensual Pleasures

    In effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types, the enjoyment of sensual pleasures is natural, spontaneous, and quite consistent with their focus on the reality of the immediate environment. In Introverted Intuitive types in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, this quality takes the form of sensual excess rather than sensual pleasure. It is interesting that a number of INTJs and INFJs described themselves as becoming self-centered and self-indulgent when they are in the grip, a descriptor often projected onto well-functioning Extraverted Sensing types by INTJs and INFJs (and by other types as well).

    Overdoing gratification of the senses is a commonly mentioned behavior for INTJs and INFJs in the grip of their inferior function. They may overeat or binge. They see themselves as obsessively doing harm to their bodies. A typical tactic is to overindulge compulsively and immediately thereafter, if not during the episode, berate themselves for their uncontrolled, shallow, destructive behavior.

    An INTJ described the experience this way:
    "There is a clear preliminary state where I am totally apart from the real world. I am not even an observer, and I can completely ignore anything real. It's a nice fantasy, that's all, just absorbing. But later I become excessively indulgent, getting totally immersed in physical experiences, eating, exercise, pulp fiction, TV. But I don't enjoy it. It feels like a dangerous roller coaster, but I'm immobilized and can't get off."


    Adversarial Attitude Toward the Outer World

    Effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types approach the outer world with eager anticipation of all the wonderful experiences awaiting them. For Introverted Intuitive types in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, the immediate reality of the outer world spells difficulty and danger. They expect obstacles and problems to plague them as they move through a strange and potentially hostile environment. Their hypersensitivity to potentially dangerous surroundings can promote uneasiness about people as well. "I can have negative forebodings and feel that people are against me," said an INTJ. An INFJ said she becomes suspicious. "Usually I'm tolerant, curious, and compassionate, so 'out of character' for me means I'm unaccepting and frustrated with the world."

    Anticipating the worst can often elicit anger and blame in INTJs and INFJs. "I'm moody and gloomy, with sudden deep anger," said an INTJ. An INFJ also describes experiencing deep anger: "I am emotionally aroused and am terribly critical of others. I accuse people of never helping me. I become dogmatic and blast people with facts. If no one is around to attack, I write a scathing letter to someone." Another said, "I internally check off all the events that happened leading up to the 'conflict' and then I verbalize this list with a sense that the impeccable logic of it will convince others I am right and I will be vindicated."

    The altered state of any inferior function is typically accompanied by a lessening of social controls and therefore more frequent expressions of anger. However, the character of the anger may be different for different types. For INTJs and INFJs, the cause of distress is often one or more objects in the environment. The anger directed at either things or people may therefore be more focused, intense, and extreme than with other inferior functions. Introverted Intuitive types may be unable to recognize alternative possibilities so that their perspective becomes extremely narrow. This tunnel vision and externalization of blame can produce ruthless results.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    If you are not joking then this isnt funny anymore, its just sad.

    I have read up on Jung and Beebe, I also understood them, which seems to be the part you missed, running your eyes across the words doesnt mean you "read" read them fyi.
    Yes I know, I majored in literature.

    I'm not trying to fight with you Billy, and you seem awfully butthurt that I challenged your type at all, which again seems to point to Fi. Perhaps INTJ is wrong, but Fi rather than Fe seems absolutely right for you.

    At any rate, this conversation is not productive at all as you've resorted to nothing but snide sarcasm.

    It's not sad that I'm not joking about Vicky Jo. Many people find her lame and offensive for various reasons, not least of which that she openly admits that she is biased toward INFJ on the front page of her web site and proceeds to talk about how she knows what her husband wants to eat better than he knows himself. Telling an ISFP client to not share his type because "of what people might think of him or react to him" is also unprofessional, biased, and beyond obnoxious.

    No she's not especially objective, and I do not consider her to be one of the best sources for typing information, though of course you can find some things in her information that are valid.

    I'm not sure why you think it's sad I'd criticize a crackpot, or any theorist for that matter. Many people disagree with various theorists for various reasons, and there's nothing "sad" about it - it's called thinking for yourself.

    Ironically, Vicky Jo quotes Jung on her web site, talking about sometimes we don't see ourselves clearly and need the input of others. I accepted this long ago, and if you were just a tiny bit more open you might too.

    At any rate, there's nothing left to say since you're so convinced you're INFJ. Au revoir.

  5. #145
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    My sister has pointed out my STPness, esp when it's more obvious or heightened in the presence of STPs.
    Ohhhhh reeeally!

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    It's almost like watching matter and anti-matter collide inside my head. I wish I didn't feel so strange in the company of my otherness.
    Well, I'm much to smart to argue with you OR your sister, but I will say this.
    My highschool sweetheart of 4 years (whom I still hear from on occassion from time to time) is an ENFJ.
    She is about as hilarious and silly as I could ever be, but in a different way.
    SO - I would venture to say that maybe an ISTP/ESTP in the proximity might "conjure up" a silly atmosphere for all, that how each individual responds to it, is clearly of their own brilliance and of course MBTI type.

    To be quite frank, I almost peed my pants you and LJ had me laughing so hard with your ENFJ/ENFP conversations and the way you guided them, and your general outlook on life, and whatever it was we were doing at the time on the day I visited. But I never associated any of that with an "ESTP contagion" of sorts, that was all you and your sistah's rock star personalities flexing into our conversations. AWESOME STUFF!

    Don't ever give ESTPs all the credit for being amusing, our egos are big enough as it is, LOL!



    -Alex
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  6. #146
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    proceeds to talk about how she knows what her husband wants to eat better than he knows himself..
    I bet she does. He seems like an INTP to me. And we all know INTPs can't feed themselves.

  7. #147
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Halllloooooooo Halla! Glad to see you weighing in!
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  8. #148
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Halllloooooooo Halla! Glad to see you weighing in!
    Hellllo, Your Majesty!
    Tis' a pleasure to be a subject of your kingdom!



    -Alex
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  9. #149
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    This is why everyone thinks I'm ESTP - because I'm not in a monastery praying for all the insulted/squashed insects in the world.
    do you seriously think you're INFJ?
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #150
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Fi or Fe biases anyone?

    It is kind of funny when we hear that we should type ourselves based on what we think our own type is.
    Yet, along the way, someone comes up to tell us that we are not the type we think we are so that we should change our type.

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