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  1. #21
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    What do you guys think about all this? Any similar experiences?
    Not exactly the same, but a lot of people think I'm being negative when to me I'm just listing things off objectively. I guess it is easier for me to see the negatives than the positives, but I don't feel depressed about it or whatever people seem to think.

    I'm told by 2 friends that I'm annoying to watch movies with because I'm "so negative". This drives me crazy because I feel like I'm not allowed to have an opinion unless it's a positive one. Note: this is not me endlessly complaining or talking during the movie or anything. It's literally:

    Person: what did you think of the movie?
    Me: Oh it was ok/pretty good/a little cheesy but ok/pretty funny. I didn't really like the X but the Y were good. (or if I hated the movie, which is pretty rare, maybe every 15-20 movies I see: well it was kinda lame, I thought the X was silly and the Y was not believable. what did you think?)
    Person: WHY ARE YOU SO NEGATIVE ALL THE TIME I hate seeing movies with you.
    Me:

    Especially since most of the time I wasn't really all that excited about the movie in the first place since it looked bad but was convinced to go see it. (looking at you, hot tub time machine )

    I'm guessing it's either my phrasing or those 2 people are just way too sensitive or something.
    -end of thread-

  2. #22
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Not exactly the same, but a lot of people think I'm being negative when to me I'm just listing things off objectively. I guess it is easier for me to see the negatives than the positives, but I don't feel depressed about it or whatever people seem to think.

    I'm told by 2 friends that I'm annoying to watch movies with because I'm "so negative". This drives me crazy because I feel like I'm not allowed to have an opinion unless it's a positive one. Note: this is not me endlessly complaining or talking during the movie or anything. It's literally:

    Person: what did you think of the movie?
    Me: Oh it was ok/pretty good/a little cheesy but ok/pretty funny. I didn't really like the X but the Y were good. (or if I hated the movie, which is pretty rare, maybe every 15-20 movies I see: well it was kinda lame, I thought the X was silly and the Y was not believable. what did you think?)
    Person: WHY ARE YOU SO NEGATIVE ALL THE TIME I hate seeing movies with you.
    Me:

    Especially since most of the time I wasn't really all that excited about the movie in the first place since it looked bad but was convinced to go see it. (looking at you, hot tub time machine )

    I'm guessing it's either my phrasing or those 2 people are just way too sensitive or something.
    Wow, that could get really annoying. I also think of myself as a realist with a slight tendency to look on the dark side, but that's about it. But why ask for an opinion about a movie and then tell you how negative you are? I guess there really is a reason why I often like going to movies alone.

    Btw... Hot Tub Time Machine?

    I don't feel that refusing to acknowledge that life can have its less positive points is a weakness. As others have said, I think it's more realistic and commendable to acknowledge the dark side, and to work to overcome its negative aspect on your life. But if you have to shut down every remotely negative thing another person says to you, or turn it back on them to make it look like the problem is all theirs...it doesn't ring true.


    EDIT: Ok, I just looked up Hot Tub Time Machine. I don't think this made it over here to the UK. Perhaps just as well
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I think that perspective can also sometimes be a coping mechanism for people who have underlying depression or a hard time dealing with shit in their lives so they need to downplay the bad things in life. In a sense, they don't want to "deal" with your problems because it destroys the illusion that "life is perfect". My ENFP 8w7 sis is not like that.
    THis. Totally this. It is my opinion that when people push something, anything, (in this case positivity) to the point that they are close to breaking with reality, it is because of a great internal fear or weakness of the opposite. I do it myself (as mentioned with alochol and drugs).. I have a great fear of people spriraling out of control, and tend to become quite nazi-ish when people drink to much or develop reliance of anykind. I'm not proud of it, but consider it the lesser of two evils.

    ENFP's are also big on assumptions and hyperbole. I don't think I'm that bad and maybe its because I am very balanced on I/E. I told my ENFP friend once about some relationship problems, only to have him blow it out of proportion and make me feel really, really bad. The worst thing about this is that being an E4, our defense mechanism is to often believe anything someone tells us about ourselves, so it takes me tremendous effort to objectively work through what is true and what is not. Needless to say, I don't trust him with any of my personal info anylonger.

    THen there is always the high-horse stand. INFJ's can do this, but I actually think ENFP's do it more often. We like to inspire, we like to share whatever brilliant new enlightenment we've found, but sometimes the way we do it really comes across on being on a pedastol. And the intention of this can indeed go either way. We can do it unknowlingly with no ill intent, or we can do it because deep down somewhere it makes us feel like we've got one up on someone, which ofcourse is a terribley shitty thing.

    I woulndn't let these behaviors bother you so much. See them for what they are. Understand that YOUR not a negative, isolated, sad and lonely person, you know yourself better than anyone, and that your friend seems to have issues she is projecting on you. Realize your limits with her. Understand her nature. I wouldn't try calling her up and telling her how she made you feel because I doubt you'd get very far. These behaviors can be very deep-rooted and entangled in us, and its not your place to be her counselor. Your her friend. And good friendships mean that we can share our fears, our insecurities, our failings, along with all the good stuff too, and we won't be judged. We will be loved and accepted AS IS.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  4. #24
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Thanks Huxley, your perspective is much appreciated. Among other issues that are probably involved here, I think Ne-Fi is kind of confusing for me. When we reconnected I was aware that communication pitfalls were something to watch out for in this friendship. I think partly I sound...well, rather freaked out and highly irritated because it feels a bit like deja vu again, it's kind of why we fell out in the past.

    I do care about this girl, and I prefer to think she wishes me well. As you say, knowing your limits with a person is important and in some cases not having too much proximity can smooth things a bit.
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  5. #25
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    You are sharing your venting, just to vent, or perhaps to even hear whether you are justified in feeling how you feel. She hears your venting though and is trying to problem-solve the negative emotions for you. It seems, for her, the solution to it at this point in her life is to try to spin everything over to the positive. So, while I wouldn't say she is projecting onto you, I would say she is perhaps guilty of projecting her solution onto you.

    To her perhaps, you appear to be complaining and not doing anything to fix what you are complaining about. You're Fe'ing, she's Te'ing, each in your particular fashion.

    TO discourage this: simply say, "Thanks, I appreciate you looking at the bright side." Give her a hug. I imagine you retreat, perhaps with some annoyance, when she answers you in a way you dislike, which will amplify her "look at the bright side" responses. Defuse them by acknowledgement.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  6. #26
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I have known a few people like that, and it's hard for me to keep them in my life, because if you're my friend and you're not trying to understand where I'm ACTUALLY coming from, but rather projecting your own ideas onto me, I can't really see you as someone who's close to me. I've also known a few people in leadership positions that didn't want to acknowledge possible problems because they saw it as negativity, rather than troubleshooting...needless to say, those are the most frustrating people to work for, ever. What they don't realize is that they are causing negative feelings in others through their refusal to acknowledge anything that's not "positive." So other people have to work around them, making things harder than they need to be.

    If I was going to hang around your friend, I'd have to sit her down and tell her, "I understand you like to think positively, but you're assigning negative emotions/vibes/whatever to me when I don't feel negative. We simply have a different perspective, and if you are going to hear everything that comes out of my mouth as "negativity," we may have to limit our contact, because I'm not enjoying the dynamic we have now." It's like trying to go down a road and having someone put up a barrier in the middle of the road, then trying to go down another, only to find the same thing. She can't enforce her worldview on you; you just have to decide if she's worth putting up with. For me, it would just be indicative that she fundamentally doesn't understand who I am, and isn't trying to.
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  7. #27
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    every time I said "oh, I worry about so and so" or "It annoys me when people do this", she'd be like "Why? Why let it annoy you? Why should you worry about them? I don't give people like that space in my head any more." It was like she had to call me on EVERYTHING of that nature that I said. I realise the need to protect myself and to avoid excessive negativity, I've seen the value of that increasingly this year. But honestly, don't try to convince me I'm in a worse place than I am...I know myself the best.
    i'm very much like your friend.
    but your perception of her motivations
    and my motivations are quite different.

    it's never about thinking that the person
    i'm talking to is in a worse place--to tell
    people how they feel is never my intention.
    not my thing.

    i have to using my own stories--it's how
    i relate back about how i would have
    dealt with said issues. it's more of a 'hey,
    this is my perspective'. because i'm
    totally not out to fix the person i'm
    talking to, but i can't just listen, without
    offering (it's how i work out my thoughts
    --outloud), if it's just just general
    complaining/worrying stuff without any
    plan of action i get disinterested really
    fast. dwelling and stating things without
    doing something about it does not sit well
    with me because i think it's a waste of time.

    i'm a better resource to bounce ideas and
    plans on what to diffuse the situation.

    and if i'm going to dwell and linger, it better
    be something good or interesting. like laying
    in bed reading with the hotness that is jock.

    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    Ahhh...from what you describe I think she's definitely an ENFP...and I am imagining an ENFP 8w7 as she sounds exactly like my ENFP 8w7 friend. It drives me insane SilkRoad. (gosh...I can't even tell you how familiar your story is to me).

    The friend I am referring to has so many amazing qualities...and is a positive influence on my life...but I have had to train myself NOT to bring up anything...oh sad, depressing, upsetting, etc. And when I am actually experiencing those kind of feelings myself...I stay away from her.
    i'm enfp 8w7, and to the bolded, hahaha.
    my girl friends are very much like that with
    me, because i don't coddle.

    i'm very in the mindframe, if you have a
    problem and you want to fix it: sure.
    but if you have problems and just want
    to wallow wallow wallow: pass.

    i'm very optimistic and somewhat cheerful
    all the time, and it's not because i run from
    my problems (also why i'm not e7) but i deal
    with it right away. i squash it, and don't let
    them fester. i never deny my feelings, but i'm
    not going to sit and feel poo poo because my
    friends don't listen to me or talk to me the way
    i want them to (or whatever general interpersonal
    misunderstanding).

    and i try to put a lot of things in perspective.

    and also... when i find myself having problems,
    reaching out is not what i naturally do. i prefer
    to deal with it on my own because it's way more
    efficient. so i'm not really the best person to take
    your troubles to in a lot of cases.

    and i have a very, very hard time listening to
    people who can't get over themselves. makes me
    look for the nearest exit.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  8. #28
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    ^I hear you to a certain extent; it's just a different perspective from mine. But I wasn't venting...I should make that clear. (I did that in the past and that led us to a very frustrating place.) She'd actually ask me about people in my life who I'd distanced myself from because they were something of a negative influence (some of them are mutual acquaintances, etc), and when I described that, it came back to a sort of "oh well obviously this is getting to you." Er no, it's not getting to me now - it got to me in the past, and I already did something to change that. But it seems she read all of that as being part of my current problems/mindset. I just really had the impression that she wanted to steer the conversation round to things I found difficult or negative - so she could then shut them down or tell me that obviously I felt terrible about my life. I don't know, maybe I'm just paranoid, but that's how it came across.

    Admittedly I do know that I can be a bit of a dweller, if not wallower - I can get really stuck on something that's causing me pain. But I was aware from the outset of this visit that this friend doesn't sympathize with that, and anyway it's something I'm trying to do less because it's not good for me. So I tried not to ramble on about problems, and to tell her about the things that were going well for me, and one of the things I did appreciate was that she offered some practical suggestions for dealing with some situations. But there was a lot of "why would you let such a negative thought cross your mind?" IT JUST HAPPENS BECAUSE SOME THINGS ABOUT LIFE SUCK. Besides, to me, refusing to acknowledge any darkness or negativity is not "fixing the problem". It's running away from it. And it can be particularly frustrating if you feel like you're simply talking about the ups and downs of life with a friend, without asking them to fix things, and not even feeling particularly negative about things - just being real about what life is like - and they feel obliged to shut anything down if it's remotely negative.

    It's certainly not a dynamic I've had with others, or very seldom. It's really quite specific to this person and so I am kind of thinking that it has more to do with her issues, beyond type, than anything else - just filtered through type, like anything. I do appreciate everyone's comments though, there is food for thought here. I just think that with some people you can care about each other but you have to realise that each of you may have issues which have nothing to do with the other person, but which affect your communication - and that your communication styles are very different and you may need to weigh up how much effort and investment you're going to put into bridging the gap.


    EDIT: I have to say it is VERY interesting how different all the perspectives were on this thread. Because everyone said something useful and valid about the dynamic, the person's motivations etc, but the perspectives were wide-ranging.
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  9. #29
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    i'm enfp 8w7, and to the bolded, hahaha.
    my girl friends are very much like that with
    me, because i don't coddle.

    i'm very in the mindframe, if you have a
    problem and you want to fix it: sure.
    but if you have problems and just want
    to wallow wallow wallow: pass.

    i'm very optimistic and somewhat cheerful
    all the time, and it's not because i run from
    my problems (also why i'm not e7) but i deal
    with it right away. i squash it, and don't let
    them fester. i never deny my feelings, but i'm
    not going to sit and feel poo poo because my
    friends don't listen to me or talk to me the way
    i want them to (or whatever general interpersonal
    misunderstanding).

    and i try to put a lot of things in perspective.

    and also... when i find myself having problems,
    reaching out is not what i naturally do. i prefer
    to deal with it on my own because it's way more
    efficient. so i'm not really the best person to take
    your troubles to in a lot of cases.

    and i have a very, very hard time listening to
    people who can't get over themselves. makes me
    look for the nearest exit.
    You sound SOOOOOooo much like my irl ENFP 8w7 friend it is a little spooky to me!!! LOL. I love that. How you can come to this site and interact with an individual that is the same gender...MBTI...and e-type...as someone in your real life...and really pick-up on their same vibe/personality/life philosophy coming-through... Not always...but I sometimes wonder if anyone else has had this experience... ((like CzeCze reminds me so much of the ENFP 7w6 friend I referred to in this thread)).

    I have A LOT of respect for how my ENFP 8w7 lives her life. And it is exactly what you describe. No wallowing. Problem-solving...being on a forward moving basis without regret. Surrounding herself with positive people and insisting on positive experiences. Not wasting time with any kind of self-pity...or on things she cannot change...but making the best of life in each moment...

    BUT...what I don't pick up on you mmhmm...either because you don't experience this or I just don't see it in you because I don't know you well enough...is that my friend is not totally in control of her anger. I mean...NOT like she is exploding in anger around me or other people (I couldn't handle that)...but there is a frustration there...right below the surface...that makes me suspect her life-system isn't working in its entirety - if that makes sense. And the thing that struggle with...is that it is her-way-or-the-highway. Like I could relate so well to SilkRoad's statement 'I'm not her'. Like...I must adhere to her 'WE STAY POSITIVE ALWAYS' standard...while my way to experience life is dismissed. It is difficult to explain.

    What I couldn't figure out though from SilkRoad's subsequent messages was whether or not her ENFP was 8w7 or 7w6. Because my 'advice' would be actually be different in both cases. In all honesty...if she was 8w7...I would say...'Yup...sorry SilkRoad...you are just going to have to deal.' Because I can't talk to my 8w7 friend about this. She MUST figure out everything on her own...and if I am to hang-out with her...I just need to curb my behavior (this is not a 'bad' thing in my mind...it is just how it is). But I'm thinking if SilkRoad's ENFP was 7w6 there may be some 'wiggle-room'. It has been my experience that my 7w6 ENFPs are more 'accomodating' (if you can get them to focus/understand the issue you are having) than my 8w7 friend.

    I can't figure out if SilkRoad's ENFP is adopting this philosophy because she actually believes it (which would be more 8w7 to me)...or if it is because she is profoundly fearful (7w6) and looking for a quick-fix. Something started to make me think SilkRoad's ENFP is scared. And yes...projecting her 'new life philosophy' on her...in an almost 'panicked' way. Yet again...it is not even remotely unusual for an average ENFP to say these kind of *let's all be happy* things...merely to inspire...but not to the extent that SilkRoad describes. I actually don't know what to think. I doubt I'm even making sense anymore LOL.

  10. #30
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    BUT...what I don't pick up on you mmhmm...either because you don't experience this or I just don't see it in you because I don't know you well enough...is that my friend is not totally in control of her anger. I mean...NOT like she is exploding in anger around me or other people (I couldn't handle that)...but there is a frustration there...right below the surface...that makes me suspect her life-system isn't working in its entirety - if that makes sense. And the thing that struggle with...is that it is her-way-or-the-highway. Like I could relate so well to SilkRoad's statement 'I'm not her'. Like...I must adhere to her 'WE STAY POSITIVE ALWAYS' standard...while my way to experience life is dismissed. It is difficult to explain.
    hahaha i totally understand. completely.
    you describe me quite well! the right below
    the surface bit - that's exactly me. it's always
    bubbling underneath me, but that's the very
    thing that gets me to squash stuff right away
    you know? but it doesn't necessarily mean
    my life is out of whack, it's more like how i work.

    "my way or the highway" hahaha! yes, yes! guilty too.
    and much more so when i was younger, because i
    always thought i was right (ie. judging people hehehe:
    i'll get 'vibes' about people, pass a judgement, and
    everybody around me thinks i'm just being too
    judgmental [i am]--but then sometimes after
    a while they will see my viewpoint even though they
    may have rejected it initially.) and i'm never hesitant
    to say 'i told you so' no matter how long it's been.
    people flipflop all the time thus the love for possibilities.

    hahahah i know i can be such a dick sometimes.
    but it's kinda funny for me you know? especially
    now, because i can take it more in a lighthearted
    way, and i think this has to do a lot with growing
    up and appreciating differences and become more
    aware of my own strengths and weaknesses,
    limitations, tolerance of certain things. stuff like that.

    but it's just more because i've always known what i want,
    even as a kid (i hate being refused), and when you're young,
    i didn't really quite understand yet the about the complexities
    of different personalities (still don't) let alone my own self?
    (oh boy i'm always having belief bubbles bursting all around
    me you know? pop pop pop. eyes wider everyday). so it also
    might be an age / maturity thing too?

    (still not to my point yet) (see? have to work out my thoughts
    and i get carried away by going off on tangents: and a lot of
    times people take it as i dismiss what they say... but i can't help
    it) (seeeee?!!!) have to work it outloud: so i just end up talking
    about myself. so that sometimes comes across as my way or
    the highway. but i try to work on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    What I couldn't figure out though from SilkRoad's subsequent messages was whether or not her ENFP was 8w7 or 7w6. Because my 'advice' would be actually be different in both cases. In all honesty...if she was 8w7...I would say...'Yup...sorry SilkRoad...you are just going to have to deal.' Because I can't talk to my 8w7 friend about this. She MUST figure out everything on her own...and if I am to hang-out with her...I just need to curb my behavior (this is not a 'bad' thing in my mind...it is just how it is). But I'm thinking if SilkRoad's ENFP was 7w6 there may be some 'wiggle-room'. It has been my experience that my 7w6 ENFPs are more 'accomodating' (if you can get them to focus/understand the issue you are having) than my 8w7 friend.

    I can't figure out if SilkRoad's ENFP is adopting this philosophy because she actually believes it (which would be more 8w7 to me)...or if it is because she is profoundly fearful (7w6) and looking for a quick-fix. Something started to make me think SilkRoad's ENFP is scared. And yes...projecting her 'new life philosophy' on her...in an almost 'panicked' way. Yet again...it is not even remotely unusual for an average ENFP to say these kind of *let's all be happy* things...merely to inspire...but not to the extent that SilkRoad describes. I actually don't know what to think. I doubt I'm even making sense anymore LOL.
    to the bolded, yes. for me, i think it's a combination
    of having been disappointed in the past and experience
    that's led me to truly believe that the only person i can
    depend on is myself. this doesn't mean that i want to reject
    helping hands but i know how a lot of times things will play
    out. if anything, i'd love take a break for once. you know?
    to really really take up on that extended helping hand. i've
    tried before, and that's what a lot of times have led to
    disappointment. so it's just better if i take care of it.
    but not because i reject the entire notion of being
    disappointed--because i mean, people get disappointed,
    but if i can counter any unnecessary disappointment,
    why not right?

    i have no idea if i even answered your points. hahahha.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

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