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  1. #1
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default Essence of Feeling

    Proposition: Feeling, as depicted by Jung, is a rational function.

    Definition: Rational, decision-making.


    Distinction: A rational function is a property of conscious scrutiny, an irrational is a property of unconscious perception.

    How does a rational function work?

    We use rational functions to make decisions. Thinking relies on laws of reasoning or logic, yet Feeling relies on personal principles or what we call personal values. The outcome of attunement with principles for Thinking is confidence of what one has come to know. The outcome of this for Feeling is harmonization with oneself on a personal level and others, or simply put, personal sympathy. Personal sympathy seems to be a more intuitive rather than rational notion, however, Jung rightly labelled Feeling as a rational function because attunement with personal values is a prerequisite for personal sympathy. Or in other words, the more in line the Feeler is with his personal values, the easier it will be for him to be sympathetic. The two entities stand in direct proportion.

    One can argue that Thinking is a more rational function than Feeling because it stays firmer to its principles, or in other words, it requires only logical soundness to function. Yet principles of Feeling are established by highly subjective and often mercurial personal sentiments of the person in question and other individuals surrounding him. My thesis is that Feeling is a rational function because the harmonizing intuition is not the starting point but only an entailment of the Feeler's attunment with conscious principles. The harmonizing intuition is only as analogous to Feeling as confidence and critical attitude is analogous to Thinking. To call Feeling an irrational function is no less absurd than calling Thinking an irrational one for the critical attitude and notion of self-competence.
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  2. #2
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    i agree.

    they're both deductive processes.

    add-on: "feeling" in the common sense of the word seems to exist outside of the realm of cognitive functions.

  3. #3
    Senior Member BallentineChen's Avatar
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    How about one being qualitative and the other quantitative?
    "For a man who wants to make a profession of good in all regards must come to ruin among so many who are not good. Hence it is necessary to a prince, if he wants to maintain himself, to learn to be able not to be good, and to use this and not use it according to necessity."
    Niccolo Machiavelli

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallentineChen View Post
    How about one being qualitative and the other quantitative?
    Those can come into play, but I think he just wanted to focus more on the rational [judging] vs irrational [perceiving] aspects right now.

    * * * *

    Restating (to see if I understand it all correctly):

    Thinking recognizes wholeness/completeness by feeling confidence in its knowledge. Meanwhile, Feeling recognizes wholeness/completeness by feeling harmonization within itself and personal sympathy for others.

    While sympathy seems more like something that occurs on its own rather than being a conscious decision, Feeling is still "rational" because the inner harmonization must come first.

    Likewise, Thinking might seem more "rational" than Feeling because the individual's preferences aren't really interfering with the "logical soundness"; it's more standardized, in a sense.

    However, despite Feeling values seeming to be based on mercurial preferences in the individual and those around him or her, this sympathy/intuition comes AFTER the conscious coordination with conscious principles. So Feeling is still a rational and conscious function.

    * * * *

    I think it's easier to see Te/Fe as rational functions because both are used in an obviously conscious way.

    Ti is more ambiguous and subjective but still commonly is perceived as rational. Fi is probably the one that is most questioned as a rational function, especially because it often expresses itself in terms of innate and structureless sympathy for others.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Empathy, look into it. Empathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Theory of mind, look into it. Theory of mind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And if your feeling daring, mirror neurons, look into it. Mirror neuron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    'Cause you can't handle me...

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    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #6
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Fi is probably the one that is most questioned as a rational function, especially because it often expresses itself in terms of innate and structureless sympathy for others.
    Even though it may appear this way on the outside, inwardly it is not structureless at all. I will be true to my own sense of values first and foremost and then to all other aspects, including sympathy. My sympathies are just one aspect of forming and examining my value structure, but they are not the structure itself.

  7. #7
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Even though it may appear this way on the outside, inwardly it is not structureless at all. I will be true to my own sense of values first and foremost and then to all other aspects, including sympathy. My sympathies are just one aspect of forming and examining my value structure, but they are not the structure itself.
    I think that is what is being said -- Fi looks one way on the surface, which can be misleading, because it's quite different (specifically, it's rational) underneath.

    I think even Ti can seem a bit flighty or not anchored sometimes when it is expressed through Ne... You really only get to see how resilient and rational it is when you press on it, you can then feel the bones underneath all the flutter.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    Procrastinating
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    so you said... while the Feeler's value system itself may be irrational decisions based on it are rational? Maybe you need to make it simpler for me?

  9. #9
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    so you said... while the Feeler's value system itself may be irrational decisions based on it are rational? Maybe you need to make it simpler for me?
    There are two aspects to Feeling.

    1. Affinity with personal value.
    2. Personal sympathy.

    Affinity with personal values is a conscious process. Personal sympathy is intuitive. Hence, values are rational or conscious, yet sympathy is irrational or unconscious. A feeler can only be sympathetic after having acquired affinity with personal values.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #10
    Procrastinating
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    There are two aspects to Feeling.

    1. Affinity with personal value.
    2. Personal sympathy.

    Affinity with personal values is a conscious process. Personal sympathy is intuitive. Hence, values are rational or conscious, yet sympathy is irrational or unconscious. A feeler can only be sympathetic after having acquired affinity with personal values.
    You seem to be equating "rational" with simple consiousness. Which definition of rational are you using:

    1. Having or exercising the ability to reason.
    2. Of sound mind; sane.
    3. Consistent with or based on reason; logical: rational behavior. See synonyms at logical.
    4. Mathematics. Capable of being expressed as a quotient of integers.

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