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Thread: Consoling an NF

  1. #21
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    It really doesn't matter which NF he is... I think the fact that he has a good friend who is willing to listen, idea generate, and be there for him is enough for just about anyone.

    I think the water skiing idea is fabulous. It will give him a day outdoors enjoying the weather, and a physical activity to help give him a mental break from what he is thinking about.

    I don't know if it would help at all... But perhaps even trying to put a positive spin in the fact that he did stand up for a principle. This world so quickly wants us to put physical comfort above anything higher. I know that it's extra tricky with a wife and kids involved, but he should still know he's a great father/role model because he didn't compromise.

    I had a summer job after highschool where I was witness to some sexual harassment against a friend of mine. I spoke up and almost got the two men I worked with fired. It was at the company that my dad also worked for, so when my mom found out about what I had done, she got mad at me saying this could reflect badly on my dad. I in turn felt horrible and extra conflicted. I ended up getting threatened by the ex-marine I worked with, and didn't say anything to anyone because I felt like I had done something wrong. So I look back on the episode and think that it would have been nice to have someone agree with me on what I did. I don't know if that helps you at all though.

    And lastly, if your friend seemed like an INFJ before this major stress occurred then he probably is an INFJ.
    it's about cognitive functions, not what he seems like, and this man is a clear Fi user. his entire dilemma is
    - impulsively acting on an urge to carry out justice and be true to his values
    - he feels what he did was morally unacceptable because he put his family in jeopardy
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  2. #22
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it's about cognitive functions, not what he seems like, and this man is a clear Fi user. his entire dilemma is
    - impulsively acting on an urge to carry out justice and be true to his values
    - he feels what he did was morally unacceptable because he put his family in jeopardy
    I'll have him take an MBTI test in the coming week or so as I help him look for jobs. Then I'll report back that he is, indeed, an INFJ. He's about as J as you can get, for one. So very clearly not a P. And so very clearly strong Fe. And no Ne in sight. Never heard a pinch of Te either. But, I'll introduce him to the test and report back just to be sure.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  3. #23
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    It really doesn't matter which NF he is... I think the fact that he has a good friend who is willing to listen, idea generate, and be there for him is enough for just about anyone.

    I think the water skiing idea is fabulous. It will give him a day outdoors enjoying the weather, and a physical activity to help give him a mental break from what he is thinking about.

    I don't know if it would help at all... But perhaps even trying to put a positive spin in the fact that he did stand up for a principle. This world so quickly wants us to put physical comfort above anything higher. I know that it's extra tricky with a wife and kids involved, but he should still know he's a great father/role model because he didn't compromise.

    I had a summer job after highschool where I was witness to some sexual harassment against a friend of mine. I spoke up and almost got the two men I worked with fired. It was at the company that my dad also worked for, so when my mom found out about what I had done, she got mad at me saying this could reflect badly on my dad. I in turn felt horrible and extra conflicted. I ended up getting threatened by the ex-marine I worked with, and didn't say anything to anyone because I felt like I had done something wrong. So I look back on the episode and think that it would have been nice to have someone agree with me on what I did. I don't know if that helps you at all though.

    And lastly, if your friend seemed like an INFJ before this major stress occurred then he probably is an INFJ.
    I can haz jet ski?

    Yeah, I just got the feeling talking to him yesterday that he probably hasn't done anything like this in YEARS!!! I know when I do these kinds of activities, I feel completely refreshed and alive. It has a way of putting things in perspective. Like, OK, something bad happened, but I can still have a really good time and enjoy life.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  4. #24
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I'll have him take an MBTI test in the coming week or so as I help him look for jobs. Then I'll report back that he is, indeed, an INFJ. He's about as J as you can get, for one. So very clearly not a P. And so very clearly strong Fe. And no Ne in sight. Never heard a pinch of Te either. But, I'll introduce him to the test and report back just to be sure.
    I await his results
    also, saying "he tested J" by itself will not be enough to convince me. some of the most J people I've ever met have been INFPs. that being said, if you have decent evidence for Ni/Fe, I'll be more than happy to admit that I was wrong.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it's about cognitive functions, not what he seems like, and this man is a clear Fi user. his entire dilemma is
    - impulsively acting on an urge to carry out justice and be true to his values
    - he feels what he did was morally unacceptable because he put his family in jeopardy
    It's also about the fact that the guy is under a ton of stress (cough, shadow functions, cough). When I am super stressed I turn super Fe and Ni blackhole and drive myself insane and (most likely) everyone within a 40 mile psychic radius.

    It's also about the fact that I would weigh the opinion of someone who has spent weeks with the guy over one random comment . (If an Ne user like an INTP hasn't seen Ne pong from his INF friend, then they aren't an INFP.)

    But this really digresses from the main point of this thread since consoling an INFP and INFJ really aren't that different. What INTPness is doing sounds just fine. People have spent thousands of years comforting each other without the hindrance of personality type theory. I think anyone would appreciate having someone who is willing to listen, offer support, and then going to do an activity.

    TL;DR: I like rocks.

  6. #26
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I can haz jet ski?

    Yeah, I just got the feeling talking to him yesterday that he probably hasn't done anything like this in YEARS!!! I know when I do these kinds of activities, I feel completely refreshed and alive. It has a way of putting things in perspective. Like, OK, something bad happened, but I can still have a really good time and enjoy life.
    Exactly. I think INXX types are especially prone to sinking into the depths of their mind far too easily, and really need to come up for air more often. Forcing yourself to be outdoors noticing "in the moment" details about your external environment, and doing an activity that prevents you from thinking... allows you to achieve an almost system reboot. So I think your water ski idea is excellent. Or maybe biking together, or tennis... anything physical and out of doors should do the trick. If you both like jogging, maybe you could make it a weekly thing to do together. Like every Saturday morning you two hit a few miles together.

    Otherwise the rest of what you are doing sounds awesome. Perhaps you just needed to be reminded of that fact yourself with this thread. Sometimes when I counsel people a lot I start feeling like I am not doing enough for them, or my well needs to be restocked so that I can be a better friend/counselor, etc with more stamina to listen.

  7. #27
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I await his results
    also, saying "he tested J" by itself will not be enough to convince me. some of the most J people I've ever met have been INFPs. that being said, if you have decent evidence for Ni/Fe, I'll be more than happy to admit that I was wrong.
    Oh, Elfboy. If you're not willing to accept an MBTI test result at face value (you want FURTHER convincing), then it's clear that you're just trying to hold your ground for the sake of argument. This is already so far off topic, I'm surprised I'm still discussing it. I know the guy is INFJ and also know that he's not INFP. I know that he displays lots of Fe. I recognize the Fe, I can even connect with it on some level, being Fe myself. I know that he doesn't display either Ne or Te. I've looked for an Ne connection and it's not to be found. Fe connection, on the other hand, is there. And he's much warmer than even I am - he's more Fe than I am. He's better at it, he's more natural at it, he's more fluid with it. Wouldn't it be silly for me to suggest to you that I know the MBTI types of your IRL friends better than you do? If you still want to argue that my friend is INFP based on never having spent 1 minute with the guy, then by all means, knock yourself out. But, you'll have to take up that argument with yourself, cuz I'm bowing out.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #28
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    But this really digresses from the main point of this thread since consoling an INFP and INFJ really aren't that different. What INTPness is doing sounds just fine. People have spent thousands of years comforting each other without the hindrance of personality type theory. I think anyone would appreciate having someone who is willing to listen, offer support, and then going to do an activity.
    To the bolded - indeed!!!

    Also, it's not like Fe users are in a valueless vacuum without having any causes/beliefs whatsoever that they believe in and which will dictate their choices. Saying that an Fe user can't possibly have his own set of values is just as erroneous as saying an Fi user can't possibly care about the values/needs of others.

    INTPness - I think it'll just take him some time to sort things out in his own head and for solidity to be reached. Doesn't mean you words aren't of use; just means it might take him time to integrate them and weave them into a new form and vision for his own life. He's mad at himself; any TiFe words you have, tbh, aren't going to be of much use because he's already thought of all that. He needs to heal himself emotionally and get to the point where he can forgive himself and move on. That'll just take some time. In the meantime, just be there if he needs to talk - just be a presence. And if he doesn't want to talk, he doesn't. Might even focus less on talking about the issue and more about just doing an activity with him.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  9. #29
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    To the bolded - indeed!!!

    Also, it's not like Fe users are in a valueless vacuum without having any causes/beliefs whatsoever that they believe in and which will dictate their choices. Saying that an Fe user can't possibly have his own set of values is just as erroneous as saying an Fi user can't possibly care about the values/needs of others.

    INTPness - I think it'll just take him some time to sort things out in his own head and for solidity to be reached. Doesn't mean you words aren't of use; just means it might take him time to integrate them and weave them into a new form and vision for his own life. He's mad at himself; any TiFe words you have, tbh, aren't going to be of much use because he's already thought of all that. He needs to heal himself emotionally and get to the point where he can forgive himself and move on. That'll just take some time. In the meantime, just be there if he needs to talk - just be a presence. And if he doesn't want to talk, he doesn't. Might even focus less on talking about the issue and more about just doing an activity with him.
    Yeah, I like the activity idea. I'd love to push him out of a plane at a moment like this. :horor: With a parachute of course. But, yeah, just something to take his mind off of it for a bit, help him to get out of the Ni loop, and to engage in other things for a while. Something fun.

    Thanks to everyone for all the input.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  10. #30
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    ^ Yeah, and to Saturned's point, INxx types are very prone to getting into internal thinking loops - of different forms, naturally, but it tends towards the same net result of spiralling and mindf*cking something to death. It becomes almost a prison. And often once in that state, input isn't going to be terribly helpful - the person isn't going to be able to 'do' anything with it. Temporary breaks - doing something fun - can be quite helpful. It very well will only be a temporary reprieve, as obviously the problem still exists and needs to be resolved and worked through, but it's not like when one is in that totally inward overanalyzation state, further analyzing is really going to help. May as well break that up a bit, as they can always go back to analyzing/beating themselves up once they're back home again. Joking aside... the activity itself can on the plus side get the happy-chemicals moving through the body, and could remove the burden of an overly negative emotional outlook, moving it more towards a neutral/optimistic mindset. Once the mind swings more towards that neutral state (at the very least), THEN that's when actual productivity and moving towards something new - taking action - will occur. I don't think the taking-action steps are fully possible when still in that uber-negative mindeframe/space.

    Basically any introverted cognitive loop brings one towards self-absorption and one can further distance oneself from clear thinking/action; being able to break that and get into an extroverted mode -- either via activity or via talking/venting it out -- is going to help.

    He'll in the end have to heal himself, but his ability to ping his thoughts/feelings off of you can act as a release and sometimes help in the reframing process. I know for myself, the ACT of releasing a lot of this stuff is half the healing process; also once I verbalize, it sometimes becomes clear to me via verbalizing what is actually not true and what I do need to focus on. Add activities totally unrelated to the problem at hand, and it could further help him out of his hyper-focusing on the problem- help him out of that perspective lock he's dug himself into. It may be a slow process but you're not doing anything wrong!!!!
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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