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  1. #1
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    Default Endless forgiveness, good trait or bad?

    Hi new here!

    I'm struggling with myself right now in the area of being "walked on" and not standing up for myself. I was, well am in a relationship with someone that lied to me about his past, in an area that I have been burned in before and he was aware, and he did a couple of other douchewaffley things as well.

    I love him, beyond the moon. In a way that makes people barf. I feel like I'm in a Lifetime movie, one of "those stupid chicks" that just won't let go of the bad guy.

    Everyone I know thinks what he did was inexcusable, they see nothing but trouble coming from this guy. I am sheepishly still enmeshed with him.

    I know there isn't anyone but me who can decide if forgiveness/staying together is right, but I tend to be an uber forgiver.

    I always see the good person, I see everyone on a spectrum, we all have a shitty dysfunctional side. I tend to give chances, to always see the good, always believe the best can come of anyone and anything.

    How do you really clearly see things in order to make good choices? This heartache sucks, but what I've experienced on a spiritual/physical level with this person I have never known with another. I'm not child, and I was married for years. I don't want to blow it if this is like "the big one".

    I know I sound cheesy. But still......I don't want to be self destructive.

  2. #2
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    Endless forgiveness is a good thing; the best thing. However, you have to be smart about this.

    If someone continues to do the same things that they know hurt you, then you need to extricate yourself from the situation. You can still forgive that person but at this point it needs to be done from a distance.

    I can't tell (nor desire to) you what to do in this situation. What I can tell is from my own personal experience. There may be pain now from the betrayal and a sense that there will be even more pain if you end the relationship... but it is much better to do it in the now than in the future.

    For me the pain of what might come to be is always scarier and hurts more than the pain of what actually is. Reality really isn't all that bad once you get over the shock of landing in it.

    Whatever you do, I would strongly recommend seeing a therapist and talking about these issues you have with someone who is qualified to help you out. Good luck with your decision, I hope I have helped in some small way.

  3. #3
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    Well thank you, the one thing I know for sure is I'm definitely taking this to a therapist. He is beautiful and he sings so this is extra hard to consider breaking off. He ignites my insides. I think having been married to a very simple practical person for so long, and then getting involved with a not so stable artistic impulsive person has been hard. It is hard to be with someone that is more like me than not like me. I mean as far as impulsive and emotional. I feel like I could forgive forever, but I did that last time (in my marriage) and ended up a shell of a person.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by purledbanjo View Post
    Well thank you, the one thing I know for sure is I'm definitely taking this to a therapist. He is beautiful and he sings so this is extra hard to consider breaking off. He ignites my insides. I think having been married to a very simple practical person for so long, and then getting involved with a not so stable artistic impulsive person has been hard. It is hard to be with someone that is more like me than not like me. I mean as far as impulsive and emotional. I feel like I could forgive forever, but I did that last time (in my marriage) and ended up a shell of a person.
    You're welcome and I really hope you find peace within yourself in regards to this situation.

    What helped me in my life was sort of sifting through what truly makes up the core essence of myself and discovering what fits and doesn't fit. What fits is a surprisingly small, but thorough, list of traits and desires. Everything else is either a bonus or something to be discarded or something that tells me this isn't right.

    I am not sure how much time you had between relationships, but that could be a factor in this as well. At least for me, I have had the best success when I have had periods of down time in between relationships. These down times enabled me to center myself and my world again, and also allowed me to clear out all of the feelings I had for the previous guy.

    Be careful as well of zeroing in on factors such as beauty and singing abilities. What happens if an alligator eats his face? Or if aliens come in the night and spirit away his voicebox? Teasing you a little bit, but I am also a bit serious. Don't let ephemeral factors outweigh what lays within someone's heart and mind and soul.

  5. #5
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Endless forgiveness is a good thing; the best thing. However, you have to be smart about this.

    If someone continues to do the same things that they know hurt you, then you need to extricate yourself from the situation. You can still forgive that person but at this point it needs to be done from a distance.
    I second this.

    Sometimes, I felt when a person continues to hurt you, it doesn't necessary mean that he is a bad person but a mere sign of incompatibility, or different modes of communication styles--as that arise from any shape and form of conflict.

  6. #6
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    Hmm.. I read the OP and immediate thought was 'Endless Forgiveness' is a bad thing.

    *Forgiveness* can be a good thing, esp. since people are pretty complicated and we don't always know when we're hurting someone else, and mistakes are made. It's all about communication and striving to understand and respect one another.

    imo if 'Endless' is added before that, then it means you're forgiving for the same thing over and over again - which I think is a very bad thing. If you're in a position where you feel you need to Forgive, repeatedly, for the same thing, then it means your needs are not being met. The other person is either knowingly/consciously doing something he knows hurts you, which you 'forgive' him for time and time again (why would you be ok with him knowingly doing that? What does that say about how he regards/treats you?), or it's just an aspect of his personality that's so engrained into who he is that if you're not ok with that and need to 'forgive' him for being that way, then you still may need to ask yourself why you're with him.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #7
    Self sustaining supernova Zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purledbanjo View Post
    *snip*

    How do you really clearly see things in order to make good choices?
    Endless forgiveness can be good for ye in that you hold onto less baggage in the form of bitter anger or grudges - but can be so easily taken advantage of, as ye've seen. I had a similar experience in regards to a relationship, a long term one which involved lies from the get go (which I found once I was in love, many moons in). It took me quite some time to disentangle myself, and in the end was stronger and the better for it.

    I will refrain from giving specific suggestions for actions... but to answer your question, the best way I saw my own situation was through the eyes of those close to me. My two best friends bonked me over the head and told me to stop being so "self sacrificing"... then to stop being "stupid". The way I saw clearly how and why something would not change is the person's history. What did they do before ye were in their life (including the stuff he lied to you about)? How has he treated you thus far? In general, much of that will not change - the good and the bad. He will still sing beautifully and possibly lie to you about things which matter to ye.

    The main way in which large changes to behaviour are made are through a choice made by the person themself, and if he hasn't made that choice and been proactive about incorporating it into his life and yours...

    Also, in regards to someone hurting another over and over again merely being incompatible - if the harm is simply out of differences in goals or basic views on important issues (monogamy, for instance), I could see that. But the lying - that's quite a different horse to me.

  8. #8
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Bad.

  9. #9
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Bad.
    Haha yep, pretty much.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  10. #10
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    Thank you for the replies thus far, and to clarify- when I say beautiful I mean fully. Not just appearance, matter of fact several people I'm close to find him physically meh. I see appearance differently. I guess I fall for the insides above the outsides generally, though his outsides are delightful. If an alligator bit his face off and he couldn't sing I'd look at his pretty feet and listen to his heart beat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
    Endless forgiveness can be good for ye in that you hold onto less baggage in the form of bitter anger or grudges - but can be so easily taken advantage of, as ye've seen. I had a similar experience in regards to a relationship, a long term one which involved lies from the get go (which I found once I was in love, many moons in). It took me quite some time to disentangle myself, and in the end was stronger and the better for it.

    I will refrain from giving specific suggestions for actions... but to answer your question, the best way I saw my own situation was through the eyes of those close to me. My two best friends bonked me over the head and told me to stop being so "self sacrificing". The way I saw clearly how and why something would not change is the person's history. What did they do before ye were in their life (including the stuff he lied to you about)? He lied about having not slept with anyone in a year, he'd been sleeping with his ex wife (big deal right?) but he did lie. He lied about his sobriety, again why? We just met, but he lied. And my ex husband was a major pornography addict to the detriment of our family and his own mental health. So this new wonderful guy- yep was a ravenous porn addict himself. He presented himself as different. My best friend says when this guy and I were in the just friends stage that I divulged too much and gave him a blueprint for Mr. Right and he followed it to a T. Who is he? I really don't know. He wanted me to want him so he "changed". How has he treated you thus far? In general, much of that will not change - the good and the bad. Aside from hiding his unsavory past some of which I knew in my gut he has treated me well. He's amazingly emotionally in tune, though a bit of a smother. He is thoughtful and fun as hell. He is terrible with money, but works. I am trying to decide if he is worth the expenses I have to incur to be with him. He will still sing beautifully and possibly lie to you about things which matter to ye.

    The main way in which large changes to behaviour are made are through a choice made by the person themself, and if he hasn't made that choice and been proactive about incorporating it into his life and yours...

    Also, in regards to someone hurting another over and over again merely being incompatible - if the harm is simply out of differences in goals or basic views on important issues (monogamy, for instance), I could see that. But the lying - that's quite a different horse to me. Especially if he's lied about anything he's done during his time with her - being unsure about whether past actions that ye've moved beyond is one thing, but being a douchewaffle or lying in present tense... current behaviour affects the here and now, and also is a fair indicator of future actions, oftentimes.
    So basically he changed the MOMENT he met me. He fell in love with me at first sight, and unbeknownst to me decided he wanted me. He became a better man in order to win my affection though this change I was led to believe had happened during his year of sober living and being alone. In reality he was porno king, banging his ex and drinking on the DL. Sigh.

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