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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcea Rosea View Post
    Who has said anything about F being superior?
    My bad; wording mistake. I'm not totally disconnected.

  2. #12
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    F is perceived as inferior because it is inferior. It is an outmoded evolutionary byproduct of a pre-industrialized humankind that interferes with clarity and corrupts our acumen.

    Emotion comes at the expense of cognition. This is often fatal - Nature must know best.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    F is perceived as inferior because it is inferior. It is an outmoded evolutionary byproduct of a pre-industrialized civilization that interferes with clarity and corrupts our acumen.

    Emotion comes at the expense of cognition. This is often fatal - Nature must know best.
    Are you being serious?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Actually, I am not sure Ts regard themselves as superior to Fs. I wouldn't know why your particular Ts give that impression to you.
    Hmm, maybe this is why some T's come across as acting superior:

    F is perceived as inferior because it is inferior. It is an outmoded evolutionary byproduct of a pre-industrialized humankind that interferes with clarity and corrupts our acumen.
    I'm hoping this person is just trying to get us poor Feelers worked up :p

  5. #15
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    F is perceived as inferior because it is inferior. It is an outmoded evolutionary byproduct of a pre-industrialized humankind that interferes with clarity and corrupts our acumen.

    Emotion comes at the expense of cognition. This is often fatal - Nature must know best.
    why would it be less fit it society today than in "pre-industrialized humankind"? please explain your logical steps more clearly.

    Fe is quite helpful and efficient for humans (unless you're alone all the time). it provides a way to change the minds of others and rally people for or against causes. say you face a task that you can't solve alone -- Fe is an efficient way to create a team and keep it together.

    Fi is helpful even if you're always alone. when you choose to do something, it's quite helpful to factor in how it will affect you. it makes way less sense to reject how it would affect you and be surprised later by how you're affected. Fi is quite logical because it uses deduction to decide if something is good or bad for you based on formulas that are refined throughout your life.

    the "F" you're talking about actually has nothing to do with feeling functions. you seem to think of it as "random inexplicable emotional outbursts". i find that Ts are prone to that as well. in fact, some Ts i know tend to deny their F functions, only to explode later.

    emotions are just a part of human limitation. either you factor that in or you don't. but it's pretty illogical not to.

  6. #16
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Does it matter if I'm serious? Can you not anaylze ideas without a human element attatched to it?

    Emotion has much less utility to humans than cognition because our environment has changed at a must faster pace than our underlying biology. The social demands of a well-adjusted cognitive human conflict with the internal irrational animalistic state we manifest as. Smith saw this (albeit in an ultra-positive light), Marx saw this, and so did Freud. The entire concern of modern Clinical Psychology is to morph willing dysfunctional human beings in this rat race of life into well-adjusted, adaptive ones, and approaches mostly deal with how to manage emotions in a world where emotion is worthless and cognition is demanded.

    You speak of F as if it is universally helpful - as if it somehow leads to higher fundamental truths because it's a part of us. Yes, you're right, it's illogical to disregard emotion when understanding human behavior, but it's not illogical to assume that it is dying and will take a smaller back seat in the future of humanity. F is only helpful when you want to talk to sick people.

    In reality, You should not speak of F as helpful, but akin to that "mercy" dose of heroin you give to the addict because they are too weak and too dependant on the exhilation of an emotional high that they can no longer go on without it. Which I'm all for, actually. It's a great big white world, and all the F in the world is dying the good death.




    I think my stitches itch.

  7. #17
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    I don't really think F's will fade out or anything... the differences in people, the F vs T, or S vs N, or whatever... they all compliment eachother. I think it would be a huge regression to remove any type of person. They are all symbiotic... when you remove one species, the species surrounding it suffer as well.

    Besides, emotion has plenty of utility. Emotion has a large part in reproduction, which is a pretty big deal. Besides, the "F" trait isn't just about emotion, but about values and ethics. It is a decision making process, just as rationality is.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    F is perceived as inferior because it is inferior. It is an outmoded evolutionary byproduct of a pre-industrialized humankind that interferes with clarity and corrupts our acumen.

    Emotion comes at the expense of cognition. This is often fatal - Nature must know best.
    Even you won't be able to escape feeling and your negative attitude towards it will make it extra painful on you at midlife when your Fe begins to assert itself more and more. That which cannot bend a little may break.

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber
    Emotion has much less utility to humans than cognition because our environment has changed at a must faster pace than our underlying biology. The social demands of a well-adjusted cognitive human conflict with the internal irrational animalistic state we manifest as. Smith saw this (albeit in an ultra-positive light), Marx saw this, and so did Freud. The entire concern of modern Clinical Psychology is to morph willing dysfunctional human beings in this rat race of life into well-adjusted, adaptive ones, and approaches mostly deal with how to manage emotions in a world where emotion is worthless and cognition is demanded.
    Why is your whole frame of reference what is inferior or superior that which is *useful* in the external, man-made world?

    Is there nothing more to humanity than being a cog in the machine? This is a really strange perspective for P type to hold, if you will forgive me for saying so.

    This world is an example of corrupted judgement gone out of control. I don't think it is the best example of humanity should strive for at its best. The world we live in is not the best of all possible worlds.

  9. #19
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Emotion has much less utility to humans than cognition because our environment has changed at a must faster pace than our underlying biology. The social demands of a well-adjusted cognitive human conflict with the internal irrational animalistic state we manifest as. Smith saw this (albeit in an ultra-positive light), Marx saw this, and so did Freud. The entire concern of modern Clinical Psychology is to morph willing dysfunctional human beings in this rat race of life into well-adjusted, adaptive ones, and approaches mostly deal with how to manage emotions in a world where emotion is worthless and cognition is demanded.
    @ the bolded section: i don't know what world you're living in, but it sure isn't this one. emotion, in this world, is totally demanded. if you don't conform to certain social norms having to do with emotion, you'll be outright rejected. even people that understand your view will have massive pressure on them to not associate with you. our culture DEMANDS emotion at least as much as it demands "cognition", which i'll take to mean rationality devoid of the human element.

    also, without social ideals about morality, the world becomes a much scarier place. there are no objective reasons not to kill, steal, rape, etc. if everyone could just do whatever they deem "logical", people would be less inclined to work together, which, on a large scale, would be terribly inefficient.

    the truth about humans is that we're limited. sure, certain emotions are non-useful side effects of selection for useful traits. but if you start rejecting all human limitation, why don't you say something like "damn, it's so worthless that humans have to sleep. we live in a world where sleep is useless and wakefulness is demanded!"

    it's not illogical to assume that it is dying and will take a smaller back seat in the future of humanity.
    i think that's pretty illogical. how are people without emotions more reproductively fit, given the attitude of the common person today?

    F is only helpful when you want to talk to sick people.
    actually, no. you're telling me you act the exact same way with people that have the same values as you as you do with people who disagree with all your values? there's no way. you respect people that share your values. you trust them more. you confide in them. you value their ideas. you think they are "GOOD".

    if someone disagreed with everything you said, you'd think to yourself -- what a retard; i'm not gonna give them the time of day. and if you were someday in a room with them and the person you trust, you'd weight the opinion of the person you trust higher, even if it was wrong.

    In reality, You should not speak of F as helpful, but akin to that "mercy" dose of heroin you give to the addict because they are too weak and too dependant on the exhilation of an emotional high that they can no longer go on without it. Which I'm all for, actually. It's a great big white world, and all the F in the world is dying the good death.
    seems like you think of F as "bad". very Fi of you.

  10. #20
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    F is perceived as inferior because it is inferior. It is an outmoded evolutionary byproduct of a pre-industrialized humankind that interferes with clarity and corrupts our acumen.

    Emotion comes at the expense of cognition. This is often fatal - Nature must know best.
    <joke>

    You're thinking of Fi, not Fe. Fi is indeed the source of those sorts of emotions that weaken society and stymie the mind. Fe is the higher, sentient kind of emotion, because it is placed on maintaining the welfare of an entire social entity, which is what humanity now functions as, rather than an individual. Without it, we wouldn't have the capacity to assess actions against their impact on the things that hold society/groups together in general, rather than against the things that hold together the systems that it is composed of. Fe at its best creates ethical norms for people that are beneficial to the whole, and uses the sense of guilt and shame we all feel as a way of inducing us to contribute to a larger entity, and ensuring the prosperity of societies.

    Fi, on the other hand, is destructive and subversive. It encourages selfish, irrational values that are not even consistent with themselves. It often runs counter to the positive Fe that is beneficial, pushing things closer to destruction when it has its way. It cannot be reasoned or negotiated with, and makes its user as dangerous and unpredictable as a wild animal. Bubbling over with passion one moment, seething with hate the next, and yet you never notice any change in their demeanor. The corruptions/neuroses of every other function come when this function pollutes them. It is atavistic and wishes to return us to a more primitive and arbitrary reality without language, thought, or a true sense of justice.

    Just letting you know that you're really only opposed to FP's, not FJ's.

    </joke>

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