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[NF] NF Male and Masculinity

Crescent Fresh

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I'll offer a few examples based on my personal experience through interacted with them. And I don't mean to stereotype any of NF types. Here it goes:


I noticed one of the common trait from ENFP males are they happened to exhibit their masculinity through being 'overtly' fighty. Typically the choice of languages that they use. Perhaps that's why they tend to enjoy having verbal fights and somewhat got carried over easily.

INFJ males are too supportive and emotional to a point that immediately it strikes as a BFF material. They're so giving and have a very protective nature to friends and it seems very difficult for them to talk 'loudly' with zest as most of the time I felt they're too soft-spoken.

ENJF males are as outgoing as ENFP males. The only difference I found is that ENFPs tend to be comfortable at taking risk by making the first move; whereas ENFJs male prefer to drop hints or play a little hard to catch. I also find them to be a bit quite chatty, though the good thing is that they are able to focus on you or a certain topic without a sudden change of topics. And they're good listeners.

I have yet to meet an INFP male, so I don't have any comment about them.


However, I found all of the above NF type males are very intouch with sensitivity. For example, I've heard openly from a few ENFPs that they had cried over watching a certain movies of books. It seems they're quite comfortable to express their sensitive emotions. INFJs do this as well, but usually during private conversations.

They all seem not to be hyper-sensitive in criticism to a point that you can tell from their facial expressions. I also know quite a few ENFPs didn't take it lightly when people criticize their style of clothes or the way they talk (goofiness, especially).


So my question to NF male here is that, how do you work on masculinity? Do you find yourself accepting easily or constantly trying to struggle with this?
 

Crescent Fresh

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Now I realized I don't have enough INFP male friends by starting this thread, though I happen to know quite a few INFP females IRL.
 

Valiant

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He's basically asking if we have any advice on how to be a man while still retaining the good parts about who we are. It is a pretty damn hard balance...
NF men have a tendency to either over-compensate (it can be pretty ridiculous. I admit I do this sometimes) or be total sissies.
I don't really know, but it seems like it sort of evens out with age and experience.
Personally, I have found that experiencing everything between hardship and happiness has made me much more practical, strong etc. People have always thought I was a rock, though.
Always been solid and dependable as hell, at least when it matters. People might have to need to ASK for my help, though. I don't notice stuff if i'm not with them.

Well... Like few other things, becoming a man is pretty hard. I would probably say that NFs aren't at all worse off than many others, because we begin in what I feel is the right end of things.
Better to be inter/intrapersonally gifted and learn other stuff later than to have an easy time with other stuff yet be a complete retard when it comes to social things and matters of the heart.

Anyway... I ramble. Just be yourself, go out and experience life. It (life) will probably hand you your ass a few times if you choose to LIVE life, but you'll turn out all the better if you survive it.
Hell, i'm only 24 years old so I don't know. I have struggled a lot with this, especially from age 12 to 22 or so. Kinda found my style after a while.
It's pretty nice not having to act about who I am anymore, and still not be considered a sissy. I've been through a disproportionate amount of shit, but it's like i've become resistant to it.
I have identified the things that make my life bad, and I am slowly changing it to be a positive one.
Setbacks are always present, even now I have two separate feelings of loss gnawing at the pit of my stomach: I have cut ties with my father today, completely. So did my brother and my little sister. He has simply gone too far, for too long.
Secondly, I was dumped by the girl i've been dating this saturday, which still sucks but pales in comparison to the actual loss of a parent and the effective loss of two since my mother still lives with him. INFJ loyalty... Choleric ENTP, unhealthy as HELL.

Anyway, nevermind. I said I was rambling, and I am not sure what my point is at all. Perhaps there just isn't one except that you'll live and learn, Crescent. I do hope it goes well.
 

rav3n

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ENFP men make good friends. I have a couple in real life. But it's true they get too aggressive when attempting to assert their masculinity. It comes across as disingenuous since they use emotional manipulation to do so. For some reason the song "one of these things is not like the other", comes to mind.
 

funkadelik

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I have an ex-boyfriend who is an INFJ. He would alternate between being really mopey, sensitive and sweet to being really raunchy, witty and fun. It was like he would snap out of his "normal" state and say "oh shit, I'm not masculine enough" and then just lay it on real thick. I loved it when that happened. :laugh:

But sometimes I felt like I was stepping on eggshells around him cause I never knew what it was I could say that would make him recoil and get emotional. I think we both kind of struggled with "switched traditional gender roles" in that relationship. I wonder if other INFJ males are similar to him in that respect.
 

ceecee

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I honestly think this is something that comes with age for any type. That said, I have known my ENFJ since our early 30's. He's always has a great balance of masculine and sensitive traits. I've never really seen an assertion of masculinity when he felt he wasn't being enough.
 

Thalassa

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I believe that ENFP males may be more likely to come across as more "masculine" in some ways because they have a more SP-ish vibe a lot of the time. Henry Miller is a great example of this.
 

Elfboy

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I noticed one of the common trait from ENFP males are they happened to exhibit their masculinity through being 'overtly' fighty. Typically the choice of languages that they use. Perhaps that's why they tend to enjoy having verbal fights and somewhat got carried over easily.
this is true of me, but it is not true of most ENFP males. most ENFP males are ditsy and goofy 80% of the time, serious 10% of the time and sad/angry about 10% of the time
personally, I am both masculine and feminine, but I would prefer it if I was more feminine. overt masculinity usually off putting to me unless it is balanced with some sort of grace and poise. I suppose growing up in Kansas will do this to you though. living in such close proximity to lots of rednecks made me think "that is disgusting, I NEVER want to be like that" so for a while I pretended to be more feminine than was natural for me. the fact that I'm a complete anime junky didn't help either, with its interpretations of unnaturally graceful, beautiful men.
it wasn't until I started studying business and watching a few older movies that I realized being masculine was possible while also being graceful, poised and pleasant.
 

Thursday

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If anyone is too much of anything, an over-compensation is natural if self-conscious about it. The only thing that I can admonish is that to be careful and true to yourself. Masculine doesn't mean man; being a man means being honest, responsible for your actions, a provider and protector, and all and all, to think of others more than yourself. So when you man up, make sure its not too foreign to your inherent character
 

Southern Kross

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I noticed one of the common trait from ENFP males are they happened to exhibit their masculinity through being 'overtly' fighty. Typically the choice of languages that they use. Perhaps that's why they tend to enjoy having verbal fights and somewhat got carried over easily.
ENFP men make good friends. I have a couple in real life. But it's true they get too aggressive when attempting to assert their masculinity. It comes across as disingenuous since they use emotional manipulation to do so. For some reason the song "one of these things is not like the other", comes to mind.
This is so true of my ENFP former boss. Don't get me wrong he's a great guy. He's laid back, intelligent, friendly, enthusiastic, fun and easy to talk to. But when he's stressed he starts lashing out in really underhand, emotionally manipulative ways. Its like when he's under pressure, he wants to demonstrate he has the upper hand over those around them. The way he does this is to abuse his skill at reading people by exploiting his insights into your character; often using your flaws against you and making everything your fault. The hardest thing is that it comes out of nowhere - its all buddy-buddy, with this really egalitarian work enviroment, and then suddenly he's a dictator.
 

OrangeAppled

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ENFP men make good friends. I have a couple in real life. But it's true they get too aggressive when attempting to assert their masculinity. It comes across as disingenuous since they use emotional manipulation to do so. For some reason the song "one of these things is not like the other", comes to mind.

I've noted this tendency for bravado of male ENFPs also (online & IRL). I don't find it emotionally manipulative, unless you mean it seems to stem from thinly veiled insecurity. I've noticed this with ESFP men also though. I've figured it is a Pe-Te face to mask Fi vulnerability (to use MBTI speak loosely).
 

Udog

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Generally, NF men have plenty of masculine in them. Afterall, everyone has both masculine and feminine aspects. So I don't think the lack of masculine is the real problem here. Rather, it seems common that NF males become aware of their feminine sides at a younger age, during a time when adults and younger boys (and girls, sometimes) can be extremely cruel about behavior that doesn't fit a societal expectation of masculine. So we learn to resent the feminine aspects of ourselves.

Oddly enough, I think that this resentment of the feminine creates a situation akin to trying to not think about a pink elephant when you are told to not think about a pink elephant. It's the difference between trying to develop masculinity, and trying to not be feminine. So ironically, NF males will sometimes learn to hide their tendencies to be feminine with exaggerated expressions of femininity - such as trying to assert dominance by going into an emotional rage.

I think a big part of this is simply accepting how our feminine aspects affect our thoughts and feelings... so we can be aware of it and then choose to act on that or move beyond it. Beyond the emotions exists the empty void that guys spend their life dancing with, and in my opinion that emptiness is one of the sources of masculine energy.

There's another element to this whole thing that I think will especially resonate with most NF males, and that's the need for a Purpose in Life. This is actually where I'm stuck right now, so for the time being I got nothing on how to discover and integrate this. But I do believe that a lot of things fall in place once an NF male is directing his life towards fulfilling his Purpose, and perhaps that is one of the most powerful expressions of masculinity that we can offer the world.

And I'm quite sleepy, so hopefully that actually made sense.
 

Giggly

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Fascinating thread.
 
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Generally, NF men have plenty of masculine in them. Afterall, everyone has both masculine and feminine aspects. So I don't think the lack of masculine is the real problem here. Rather, it seems common that NF males become aware of their feminine sides at a younger age, during a time when adults and younger boys (and girls, sometimes) can be extremely cruel about behavior that doesn't fit a societal expectation of masculine. So we learn to resent the feminine aspects of ourselves.

If you resent the feminine aspects of yourselves, I would think that potentially could lead to misogynistic feelings towards women, in theory. I knew an ENFJ guy who seemed to both love and hate women at the same time. I think you just gave me the explanation. :)
 

Udog

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If you resent the feminine aspects of yourselves, I would think that potentially could lead to misogynistic feelings towards women, in theory. I knew an ENFJ guy who seemed to both love and hate women at the same time. I think you just gave me the explanation. :)

Yeah, good catch. That's something else worth discussing, but figured my post was beginning to run long enough as it was. However, it's hard to hate the femininity in yourself and be 100% cool with it in women.
 

Kriash

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I think that I battle with femininity vs masculinity within myself. I am not a masculine guy at all really- but I do have some masculine traits. When I was younger I was really aggressive. I didn't like the fact that I was so feminine, so in turn I got in a lot of fights, I was crude, rude and times, and completely out of control. When I finally accepted who I was- I became a much better individual. I've really mellowed out since I have accepted that it's okay for me to be this way. I am still aggressive at times- but it isn't something that happens a lot, and usually is in response to someone I care about being in danger.

I feel like I'm rambling, I am not really sure if that answered anything or not o.o
 

Crescent Fresh

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He's basically asking ... Perhaps there just isn't one except that you'll live and learn, Crescent. I do hope it goes well.

Not a "he" here. :)

Actually, the quality that I like about ENFP male is that they seem to have a balance of being emotionally deep and outgoingness. Really, I think ENFP males can be really in 'sync' with females as I noticed that they can chat for hours and topic is always interesting.

I felt the same with INFJ and ENFJ males but the feeling is a little different. Whereas ENFJ male tend to focus more on animated gestures (they somehow love to clap their hands to show agreement, though I felt they clapped a little too hard for attention), ENFP male are somewhat more natural and really good at joking so it's always fun to hang around them. I really admire their social skills as they're very good at not crossing the line.

When it comes to INFJ male, I felt they are more reserved and shy. They also seem to be quite uncomfortable in a large group setting, always seem to be a little too quiet. One-on-one is an entirely different story. The best thing is since I'm INFJ myself, so we don't need to explain too much of how we felt at any moment, we just simply gets it. Among all male friends that I have, I'm closest with INFJ male just because we both know how to handle each other and giving space when needed.

But yes, I noticed that ENFP males love posting LOTS of photos of themselves via various social network. And most often you'll always find a few photos that they're trying to look seductive (which is, honestly, a turn-off for me). I would rather want to see a guy taking a more laidback photos rather than trying to pose as a model-like death stare.
 

21%

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I had a classmate back in junior high who would be the first one to bawl at anything -- sad songs, sad movies, partings. I thought he was awesome :blush:

I think society is putting too much pressure on guys conform to the stereotypes. But, at least it's getting better now, so I we're definitely moving forward. It shouldn't matter that much to be 'masculine' as it is to be 'healthy', and knowing and accepting yourself and being unafraid to show it is a sure sign of 'healthiness'

(I think TJ girls have the same problem -- but reversed)

Actually, now that I think about it I'm not really sure what 'masculine' and 'feminine' even mean anymore... :huh:
 

CzeCze

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I just wanted to say that I have encountered and know a number of NF males. And remember, I have a lot of experience dating other women.

One ENFP guy I know is like a freaking woman in some respects. He is SO emo and sensitive and needs to freaking process his emotions all the time. Publicly. This is juxtaposed by that overt aggression that you mentioned in your OP. He gets on my last nerve because it's so obvious he's flailing about insulting people as a cover for his own insecurities and sensitivity.

(BTW I've noticed IMHO that INTP guys who fall for someone and more lovesick ENFPs in their crushed out states are almost indistinguishable. That just speaks to how emo and gooey INTPs can get :alttongue:)

And I have certainly encountered some NF men who are straight up pimps. They are just so freaking smooth and self-possessed and it's not an affectation, it is genuine. I think I know 1 ENFJ irl that I would personally describe him as someone who can make panties drop, but maybe that's just ENFP me vibing off the Fe.

I think some people think it is an oxy moron to be masculine yet still in touch with your feelings, to be sensitive, to be overtly caring, etc. BS!

Also with Fe heavy ENFJ guys, they are used to charming people some with more visible effort than others. To an Fi user these things are really bald but as I've gotten older I've realized that no matter how crude an attempt to win someone over may look like to me, if you do it with enough self-assuredness it works. And IMHO when I see it in ENTPs or ENFJs it can look pretty similar.

And I disagree. I think ENFJ men are more likely to be more forward (?) than an ENFP, or maybe it's just a matter of the way they are forward.

And that 'J' and Fe lend themselves better to 'traditional expressions of masculinity'. So much macho posturing, that social peacocking is pure Fe.

Hey, where's [MENTION=204]FineLine[/MENTION]! He probably has some interesting observations. :alttongue:

I think Fi heavy men are going to be more of a disadvantage for the 'traditional masculine' route, which of course, is BS. But self-reflection and showing (let alone having) empathy is a huge no-no in traditional gender role-ing for men.

Then again, I'm pretty sure Lothario, Casanova, and Barry White were feelers? :alttongue:

Then again, thinking about this...I don't really think people IRL look at 'feeler' men and think 'that guy isn't masculine'. I dunno, this is coming from the perspective of a girl who has surrounded herself mostly with other females. I also remember an ISFP male friend and he was so nice and also masculine. Maybe my lens for what I consider 'masculine' is different or broader (or narrower) than other peoples?
 
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