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  1. #31
    Senior Member Wanderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhart View Post
    I might have been overcompensating masculinity in parts of my life maybe. I was rather easy to hurt when I was a child and overall physically rather weak, and it was difficult to get along like that at secondary school. At some points I put on a facade of arrogance and indifference, and pretending to be rather unemotional. I tried to make myself look more masculine or older with facial hair (I always had and still have a rather boyish look). Of course at least some people could see through it rather easily, at least after some time.

    I gave up on most of that. I noticed that while it helped with some problems I had before that, it caused a whole lot of new problems which are even more damaging for me. Now I try to be more like myself, more natural and not to care too much about other peoples impressions. However it probably had impact on how my personality shaped in the end, because it is still difficult for me to be less distanced often.
    Um. That could practically be a word for word description of my life so far, except I managed to make it till midway through college before I started turning to a facade of arrogance and indifference, and I've definitely distanced myself from most everyone and detached from my emotions as best I can. What issues did you run into, and why?

  2. #32
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Um. That could practically be a word for word description of my life so far, except I managed to make it till midway through college before I started turning to a facade of arrogance and indifference, and I've definitely distanced myself from most everyone and detached from my emotions as best I can. What issues did you run into, and why?
    Well, when you are too distanced all the time, it is hard to get closer to people. I generally felt I could get along relatively well with people, but it was nearly impossible to form some kind of real friendships. My contact to most people, even those which I generally liked, was quite superficial, more superficial than I wished it was. Not to mention when I was in love with this girl, I was simply not able to show her how I felt for her, and maybe I had a chance that she was feeling similarily and missed it. In that time I also found to be confronted with a whole lot of more problems in my life which really had eaten me up; two death cases in my family alongside with a whole lot of general stress involved with their illness before for my parents which affected the whole atmosphere at home, and the fear of loneliness because I knew the time of school was going to its end and knew I didn't have much time anymore to change things to the better with the people I liked. I couldn't show anyone how I felt about my problems, and I just isolated more and more, and people probably didn't understand what was going on in me at that time because I never spoke to anyone about it, but it lead to them being less interested in me as well I think.

    Well, and then I ended up quite lonely indeed. On the other hand that loneliness gave me the time to think about many things and that is what made me open up a little bit again I believe.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Generally, NF men have plenty of masculine in them. Afterall, everyone has both masculine and feminine aspects. So I don't think the lack of masculine is the real problem here. Rather, it seems common that NF males become aware of their feminine sides at a younger age, during a time when adults and younger boys (and girls, sometimes) can be extremely cruel about behavior that doesn't fit a societal expectation of masculine. So we learn to resent the feminine aspects of ourselves.

    Oddly enough, I think that this resentment of the feminine creates a situation akin to trying to not think about a pink elephant when you are told to not think about a pink elephant. It's the difference between trying to develop masculinity, and trying to not be feminine. So ironically, NF males will sometimes learn to hide their tendencies to be feminine with exaggerated expressions of femininity - such as trying to assert dominance by going into an emotional rage.

    I think a big part of this is simply accepting how our feminine aspects affect our thoughts and feelings... so we can be aware of it and then choose to act on that or move beyond it. Beyond the emotions exists the empty void that guys spend their life dancing with, and in my opinion that emptiness is one of the sources of masculine energy.

    There's another element to this whole thing that I think will especially resonate with most NF males, and that's the need for a Purpose in Life. This is actually where I'm stuck right now, so for the time being I got nothing on how to discover and integrate this. But I do believe that a lot of things fall in place once an NF male is directing his life towards fulfilling his Purpose, and perhaps that is one of the most powerful expressions of masculinity that we can offer the world.

    And I'm quite sleepy, so hopefully that actually made sense.
    I would extend the bolded part to adulthood, as well. I don't regard behaviors as feminine or masculine, though many are stereotyped as such. I agree that male NFs may learn at an early age and throughout our lives that our natural strengths, and I do consider them strengths, are not as valued by society in men and we are often criticized for it. This negative feedback will undoubtedly have an effect on the individual's perception of himself and his place in the world. It's easy for women to point their finger at a male and say, "I'm not attracted to him because he doesn't have enough confidence," when confidence may not be the issue at all. He could be entirely content with himself, but discontent that his personality doesn't attract women. Compare this to the man who is entirely content with himself and constantly receives positive feedback from others because his natural inclinations are considered "masculine" and attractive. The two aren't on an even playing field. The former must decide if being himself, at the expense of loneliness, is worth the consequences. The latter doesn't have to change anything.

    I don't think most male NFs resent the so-called "feminine" aspects of their personality. They resent the fact that women aren't attracted to them because of it.

  4. #34

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    Well said MM. I think the tide will change however, it will be slow but I feel it is also inevitable.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #35
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    I would extend the bolded part to adulthood, as well. I don't regard behaviors as feminine or masculine, though many are stereotyped as such. I agree that male NFs may learn at an early age and throughout our lives that our natural strengths, and I do consider them strengths, are not as valued by society in men and we are often criticized for it. This negative feedback will undoubtedly have an effect on the individual's perception of himself and his place in the world. It's easy for women to point their finger at a male and say, "I'm not attracted to him because he doesn't have enough confidence," when confidence may not be the issue at all. He could be entirely content with himself, but discontent that his personality doesn't attract women. Compare this to the man who is entirely content with himself and constantly receives positive feedback from others because his natural inclinations are considered "masculine" and attractive. The two aren't on even playing fields. The former must decide if being himself, at the expense of loneliness, is worth the consequences. The latter doesn't have to change anything.

    I don't think most male NFs resent the so-called "feminine" aspects of their personality. They resent the fact that women aren't attracted to them because of it.
    speak for youself
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Well said MM. I think the tide will change however, it will be slow but I feel it is also inevitable.
    I wish I was as optimistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    speak for youself
    Don't worry! You're not an NF, and definitely not an INFP so stop desecrating the type every other week.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    I don't think most male NFs resent the so-called "feminine" aspects of their personality. They resent the fact that women aren't attracted to them because of it.
    I think that's true with a lot of NF males, but equally a lot actually end up being more attractive because of their NFness. It's down to the individual and how their NFness manifests. Some effectively keep all the attractive masculine traits, and have a lot more attractive feminine traits than normal. Some get all the unattractive traits of both sides. Then, of course, there's the massive variation in what androsexuals find attractive, so they'll usually be a large minority who finds the outliers attractive regardless.

    It's more than just women though, it's society that tends to reject feminine traits in men. I don't see men reacting any better, including other NF men, to feminine behaviour. That's why I hide my feminine traits, as they tend to lose me friends quickly. The best I can do is play them up to get some laughs, almost like self deprecating humour (except I don't see it as deprecating), but I've never seen someone take them seriously.

    As for confidence. Well often "confidence" is referring to aggressive, confrontational, upfront attitudes, as opposed to how secure one is in something. It's strange because sometimes insecurity, associated with a lack of confidence, leads to those same behaviours. I guess they could be grouped into external and internal confidence, which do not necessarily coincide, where external confidence is the one stereotypically seen as more attractive.

  8. #38
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    I wish I was as optimistic.
    Don't worry! You're not an NF, and definitely not an INFP so stop desecrating the type every other week.
    what do you think I am then, ENTJ
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  9. #39
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    You is ISTP.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  10. #40
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    chalk it up on one of the 5 threads already up on people arguing over my type
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

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