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  1. #11
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    I noticed one of the common trait from ENFP males are they happened to exhibit their masculinity through being 'overtly' fighty. Typically the choice of languages that they use. Perhaps that's why they tend to enjoy having verbal fights and somewhat got carried over easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    ENFP men make good friends. I have a couple in real life. But it's true they get too aggressive when attempting to assert their masculinity. It comes across as disingenuous since they use emotional manipulation to do so. For some reason the song "one of these things is not like the other", comes to mind.
    This is so true of my ENFP former boss. Don't get me wrong he's a great guy. He's laid back, intelligent, friendly, enthusiastic, fun and easy to talk to. But when he's stressed he starts lashing out in really underhand, emotionally manipulative ways. Its like when he's under pressure, he wants to demonstrate he has the upper hand over those around them. The way he does this is to abuse his skill at reading people by exploiting his insights into your character; often using your flaws against you and making everything your fault. The hardest thing is that it comes out of nowhere - its all buddy-buddy, with this really egalitarian work enviroment, and then suddenly he's a dictator.
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  2. #12
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    ENFP men make good friends. I have a couple in real life. But it's true they get too aggressive when attempting to assert their masculinity. It comes across as disingenuous since they use emotional manipulation to do so. For some reason the song "one of these things is not like the other", comes to mind.
    I've noted this tendency for bravado of male ENFPs also (online & IRL). I don't find it emotionally manipulative, unless you mean it seems to stem from thinly veiled insecurity. I've noticed this with ESFP men also though. I've figured it is a Pe-Te face to mask Fi vulnerability (to use MBTI speak loosely).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #13
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Generally, NF men have plenty of masculine in them. Afterall, everyone has both masculine and feminine aspects. So I don't think the lack of masculine is the real problem here. Rather, it seems common that NF males become aware of their feminine sides at a younger age, during a time when adults and younger boys (and girls, sometimes) can be extremely cruel about behavior that doesn't fit a societal expectation of masculine. So we learn to resent the feminine aspects of ourselves.

    Oddly enough, I think that this resentment of the feminine creates a situation akin to trying to not think about a pink elephant when you are told to not think about a pink elephant. It's the difference between trying to develop masculinity, and trying to not be feminine. So ironically, NF males will sometimes learn to hide their tendencies to be feminine with exaggerated expressions of femininity - such as trying to assert dominance by going into an emotional rage.

    I think a big part of this is simply accepting how our feminine aspects affect our thoughts and feelings... so we can be aware of it and then choose to act on that or move beyond it. Beyond the emotions exists the empty void that guys spend their life dancing with, and in my opinion that emptiness is one of the sources of masculine energy.

    There's another element to this whole thing that I think will especially resonate with most NF males, and that's the need for a Purpose in Life. This is actually where I'm stuck right now, so for the time being I got nothing on how to discover and integrate this. But I do believe that a lot of things fall in place once an NF male is directing his life towards fulfilling his Purpose, and perhaps that is one of the most powerful expressions of masculinity that we can offer the world.

    And I'm quite sleepy, so hopefully that actually made sense.

  4. #14
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Fascinating thread.

  5. #15
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Generally, NF men have plenty of masculine in them. Afterall, everyone has both masculine and feminine aspects. So I don't think the lack of masculine is the real problem here. Rather, it seems common that NF males become aware of their feminine sides at a younger age, during a time when adults and younger boys (and girls, sometimes) can be extremely cruel about behavior that doesn't fit a societal expectation of masculine. So we learn to resent the feminine aspects of ourselves.
    If you resent the feminine aspects of yourselves, I would think that potentially could lead to misogynistic feelings towards women, in theory. I knew an ENFJ guy who seemed to both love and hate women at the same time. I think you just gave me the explanation.

  6. #16
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    If you resent the feminine aspects of yourselves, I would think that potentially could lead to misogynistic feelings towards women, in theory. I knew an ENFJ guy who seemed to both love and hate women at the same time. I think you just gave me the explanation.
    Yeah, good catch. That's something else worth discussing, but figured my post was beginning to run long enough as it was. However, it's hard to hate the femininity in yourself and be 100% cool with it in women.

  7. #17
    Resident Apple Hoarder Kriash's Avatar
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    I think that I battle with femininity vs masculinity within myself. I am not a masculine guy at all really- but I do have some masculine traits. When I was younger I was really aggressive. I didn't like the fact that I was so feminine, so in turn I got in a lot of fights, I was crude, rude and times, and completely out of control. When I finally accepted who I was- I became a much better individual. I've really mellowed out since I have accepted that it's okay for me to be this way. I am still aggressive at times- but it isn't something that happens a lot, and usually is in response to someone I care about being in danger.

    I feel like I'm rambling, I am not really sure if that answered anything or not o.o

  8. #18
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    He's basically asking ... Perhaps there just isn't one except that you'll live and learn, Crescent. I do hope it goes well.
    Not a "he" here.

    Actually, the quality that I like about ENFP male is that they seem to have a balance of being emotionally deep and outgoingness. Really, I think ENFP males can be really in 'sync' with females as I noticed that they can chat for hours and topic is always interesting.

    I felt the same with INFJ and ENFJ males but the feeling is a little different. Whereas ENFJ male tend to focus more on animated gestures (they somehow love to clap their hands to show agreement, though I felt they clapped a little too hard for attention), ENFP male are somewhat more natural and really good at joking so it's always fun to hang around them. I really admire their social skills as they're very good at not crossing the line.

    When it comes to INFJ male, I felt they are more reserved and shy. They also seem to be quite uncomfortable in a large group setting, always seem to be a little too quiet. One-on-one is an entirely different story. The best thing is since I'm INFJ myself, so we don't need to explain too much of how we felt at any moment, we just simply gets it. Among all male friends that I have, I'm closest with INFJ male just because we both know how to handle each other and giving space when needed.

    But yes, I noticed that ENFP males love posting LOTS of photos of themselves via various social network. And most often you'll always find a few photos that they're trying to look seductive (which is, honestly, a turn-off for me). I would rather want to see a guy taking a more laidback photos rather than trying to pose as a model-like death stare.

  9. #19
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I had a classmate back in junior high who would be the first one to bawl at anything -- sad songs, sad movies, partings. I thought he was awesome

    I think society is putting too much pressure on guys conform to the stereotypes. But, at least it's getting better now, so I we're definitely moving forward. It shouldn't matter that much to be 'masculine' as it is to be 'healthy', and knowing and accepting yourself and being unafraid to show it is a sure sign of 'healthiness'

    (I think TJ girls have the same problem -- but reversed)

    Actually, now that I think about it I'm not really sure what 'masculine' and 'feminine' even mean anymore...
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  10. #20
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I just wanted to say that I have encountered and know a number of NF males. And remember, I have a lot of experience dating other women.

    One ENFP guy I know is like a freaking woman in some respects. He is SO emo and sensitive and needs to freaking process his emotions all the time. Publicly. This is juxtaposed by that overt aggression that you mentioned in your OP. He gets on my last nerve because it's so obvious he's flailing about insulting people as a cover for his own insecurities and sensitivity.

    (BTW I've noticed IMHO that INTP guys who fall for someone and more lovesick ENFPs in their crushed out states are almost indistinguishable. That just speaks to how emo and gooey INTPs can get )

    And I have certainly encountered some NF men who are straight up pimps. They are just so freaking smooth and self-possessed and it's not an affectation, it is genuine. I think I know 1 ENFJ irl that I would personally describe him as someone who can make panties drop, but maybe that's just ENFP me vibing off the Fe.

    I think some people think it is an oxy moron to be masculine yet still in touch with your feelings, to be sensitive, to be overtly caring, etc. BS!

    Also with Fe heavy ENFJ guys, they are used to charming people some with more visible effort than others. To an Fi user these things are really bald but as I've gotten older I've realized that no matter how crude an attempt to win someone over may look like to me, if you do it with enough self-assuredness it works. And IMHO when I see it in ENTPs or ENFJs it can look pretty similar.

    And I disagree. I think ENFJ men are more likely to be more forward (?) than an ENFP, or maybe it's just a matter of the way they are forward.

    And that 'J' and Fe lend themselves better to 'traditional expressions of masculinity'. So much macho posturing, that social peacocking is pure Fe.

    Hey, where's @FineLine! He probably has some interesting observations.

    I think Fi heavy men are going to be more of a disadvantage for the 'traditional masculine' route, which of course, is BS. But self-reflection and showing (let alone having) empathy is a huge no-no in traditional gender role-ing for men.

    Then again, I'm pretty sure Lothario, Casanova, and Barry White were feelers?

    Then again, thinking about this...I don't really think people IRL look at 'feeler' men and think 'that guy isn't masculine'. I dunno, this is coming from the perspective of a girl who has surrounded herself mostly with other females. I also remember an ISFP male friend and he was so nice and also masculine. Maybe my lens for what I consider 'masculine' is different or broader (or narrower) than other peoples?
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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