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  1. #91
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Some enfp men will become socially kinda smooth. It feels very greasy to me. They are thinking with Te but putting on an Fi facade to get what they want...

    Another type is kinda loud and way Te-ish out front. These guys dont strike me as agressive, but they are sort of knee jerk responsive.

    Other enfp men seem more in the middle between the two. As for the "seeing right through you", well we already do that all of the time...but we try to pretend we dont see anything because people freak out if you say anything about what you see. I have-in defense-used that to land some heavy blows on another. You just tell them the truth (as you perceive it) about themselves. It is a mean thing to do as people hide in their won self projections, so it isnt okay to expose that without their permission typically.

    My enfp son is a total goofball, emo, whiny, and mopey and his little 4 yo INTJ brother is already more masculine than him. Tis the truth, alas.

    INFJ men-sexy, manipulative, caring, cut-throat, seductive, slightly corny. My dad was an INFJ, but I dont think I would ever have the tactical skills required to date one. masculine, but staged.

    ENFJ guys sometimes freak me out as they feel way too friendly, but I have an enfj guy friend who is all skeptical, witty, and morose about work and he seems really reasonable-he's like my mom. We are moms together. Totally not masculine. *shrugs*

    INFP men-I dunno, they never really say much.

  2. #92
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    I would rather want to have things happened naturally and always thought it's for the best interests between two people. I think for most resentment comes from lack of confidence. As I've seen confident ENFJ can easily take no from girls and move on to the next target. Perhaps ENFPs will try harder if they viewed disinterested as a form of challenge.
    Confidence = having the courage to take a risk with a chance of failing?
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  3. #93
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    This is interesting. I still remembered it's very difficult for me to turn this guy down (whom I suspect is an INFJ) after writing the sweetest confession letter to me during high school. The chemistry just wasn't there and I tried to be very nice to him and expressed my wish for remaining friends as the feeling wasn't mutual. That's when he started to keep a distance with me and eventually disconnected.

    I would rather want to have things happened naturally and always thought it's for the best interests between two people. I think for most resentment comes from lack of confidence. As I've seen confident ENFJ can easily take no from girls and move on to the next target. Perhaps ENFPs will try harder if they viewed disinterested as a form of challenge.
    What you just described is a typical PUA perspective: women are targets who are easily disposed of. I wouldn't mistake that for confidence. It sounds like your INFJ, on the other hand, viewed you as more than just a target. I don't think that says anything about his self-esteem.

  4. #94
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Mask Manifest, I guess you mean it's not a matter of confidence but the talent/skill/competency that the confidence is being displayed in?
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  5. #95
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    I hate guys who feel like they have to be all macho and full of testosterone.

    NF guys are the best. All the relationship bonuses, like they actually like to talk about personal issues, but still they are guys. They don't seem to have the kind of emotional sensitivities that women have that make them difficult.

  6. #96
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I think society puts pressure on guys to conform to the wrong masculine traits
    - aggression
    - impulsiveness
    - toughness
    - having lots of sex
    - disgusting amounts of muscle
    True. I don't find any of these attractive >_< (I'm scared of muscles...)

    as opposed to the right ones
    - responsibility
    - ambition
    - productivity
    - confidence
    Are these supposed to be 'masculine' though? I think these are desirable qualities in the modern female too...
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  7. #97
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I think society puts pressure on guys to conform to the wrong masculine traits
    - aggression
    - impulsiveness
    - toughness
    - having lots of sex
    - disgusting amounts of muscle

    as opposed to the right ones
    - responsibility
    - ambition
    - productivity
    - confidence
    Firstly, no one can pressure anyone to do anything unless they have some form of coercive power to do so. And social pressure isn't necessarily coercive unless someone allows it to be.

    As for both those lists, they're all fine to me as long as they're within reason and as long as they have lots of sex solely with me, that's also a positive. But I do have to take exception to the usage of disgusting and muscles. Perhaps muscles are disgusting to you but they're pretty hot to me and something that men build far easier than women due to their naturally manifesting levels of testosterone. When a man can pick you up effortlessly, as a woman this resonates within me as HOT!

    Now how much of this has anything to do with the opening post, I have no idea. Suffice to say, all the traits listed can be traits than any man can have, regardless of type. It appears to me Elfboy that you're just stating your personal preferences in men, instead of addressing the topic.

  8. #98
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I think it is liberating to feel you only appeal to some people. In all aspects of yourself.
    Unless you don't appeal to the person(s) you're attracted to; then that becomes appealing.
    MBTI: INFP
    Enneagram: 6w7, phobic
    Tritype: 6-9-2
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/Sp
    Temperament: Pure Supine
    D&D Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: Solid Liberal
    Religious Views: Atheist

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  9. #99
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    I don't think most male NFs resent the so-called "feminine" aspects of their personality. They resent the fact that women aren't attracted to them because of it.
    They boil down to the same thing, in the end. If someone truly accepted the feminine aspect of their personality, why would they be bothered if some people rejected it? Since he loved that part of himself, he'd be far more inclined to believe that his issues with women involve something *else*, rather then being more feminine than a typical guy.

    I mean… look at gay guys. Some of them are extremely effeminate, yet they often have legions of women that are sexually attracted to them. Any NF man that says his lack of success with women simply involves the feminine aspects of his personality is simply passing the buck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    There seems to be a sense of misogyny that overshadows both genders. A woman who is considered to have a "masculine" personality, whatever that may be: vocal, authoritative, take-charge attitude, will probably be regarded as more attractive than a man who is considered feminine: sensitive, cautious, quiet-natured. Again, I don't think those qualities define either gender, but they seem to be stereotypes that are often reiterated in society, blatantly or subtly, by both genders.
    By and large, I don’t think NT women have it any easier. They stick out in society just as much, and often have to face the same type of questions us NF men do.

    You seem to be focusing on the “attractiveness” aspect, though. Well, young women generally just have to be physically attractive to draw the attention of men. Their attractiveness isn’t always related to who they are. Sure, she has guys clawing at her, but then they turn around and try to change her into a more typical woman once they win her over. Ever wonder how much that's gotta suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    Though I think many NF male would assume that it's not an ideal option for them to share such side of sentimentality (as long as it's not overtly emotional) with women as I found that's one of the strongest qualities NF males have in common, apart from other types. Most often they may seem to confuse that as being viewed as weakening their masculinity. I always felt that's what they draw people in.
    Sensitivity is a strength when it’s a *dimension* to our personality, and a weakness when it defines us. Same goes with this whole femininity business.

    I know that when I would advertise my sensitivity, it never worked for me romantically. Instant friend zone. However, if I was just myself, and let myself be sensitive when a situation called for it without making a big deal about it… well… I know that I’ve attracted a few women that way.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    My NF guy was told by his witchy (female) boss that there was no way anyone could actually be as nice as he acts and that he must be being nice to manipulate people. What's sad is that he really is actually that nice.

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