[INFP] ENTP chick with serious question about INFP boyfriend

[digesthisickness]

I'm a woman, so I can't offer insight into the male INFP specifically, but as an INFP, I have a few ideas:

- NTs can feel like a "mind mate". Intellectual stimulation is huge for me, and I'd guess for many INFPs. Playful, interesting discussion often occurs with another NP
in a way you don't experience with other types.
- In regards to ENTPs, they are extroverts, and in a sense, I find their demeanor "warmer" than, say, some fellow IxFx types, due to being outgoing & more expressive with ideas/thoughts. I especially find this true of female ENTPs, who seem to have to develop their tert Fe a bit earlier in life. So he may appreciate an outgoing demeanor which contrasts his more reserved, introverted one. Extroversion is actually associated with femininity & introversion with masculinity, so in that sense, you sort of are a traditional pair.
- INFPs often get called upon a lot to play therapist to their friends/family, and it can be emotionally draining. If you're emotionally low-maintenance, then he may find that a breath of fresh air. I mean, I know I do get sick of talking about feelings sometimes....really!
- Both being NPs, your approach to life in many ways may be similar, which eases conflict. I'm reading a book right now which details pros & cons of every MBTI pairing, and P+P relationships showed the least conflict over everyday, mundane issues like chores & plans.

What I personally don't like & find patronizing
- I don't need or want someone to think or make decisions for me
- I don't need someone to handle my emotions for me; someone to listen & be sympathetic is more than enough
- I don't want someone to think they're giving me perspective by belittling my feelings & perspective

Especially since he is a man, I'd be careful not to be condescending towards him in these areas. I've seen a few INFP men complain they hate being "mothered" in a relationship. Sometimes because they are quiet & easygoing & - I'll just say it - a bit passive, these women with strong personalities steamroll them (often ExxJs). At first, the lazy P may go along with it, but over time, resent it. I can't see an ENTP wanting to take a guy on as a pet project & mother him, though, so you probably have that advantage also. INFPs are actually pretty independent & appreciate people who let them do their own thing in their own way, and being NPs, ENTPs are pretty similar.

great post! he's home now, so my attention has wandered in his direction, but i'll be responding soon. thanks.

p.s. also to skylights and kyuuei as well.

 

[21%]

ENTPs can be steady bouts of sunshine in an INF's chaotic inner life

 

[Xenon]

...when he began opening up to me, he found out quickly that i'm also practically impossible to shock, and he seemed to appreciate that. that i took what he carried as a secret weight inside him as simply "being human" and took it further by appreciating his honesty and openness.

Oh yeah, I recognize that. Not from any romantic relationship, but I was tight with an INFJ (I think, she was definitely an FJ of some sort) for a while and this seemed to play a part in why she was drawn to me. She was a big-time people pleaser, known to be very caring and accomodating toward people, always feeling like she had to go out of her way to meet their needs, be what they wanted, etc. The first time she showed her not-so-nice side to me (nothing major, just said the sort of random pissiness that passes through all our heads at times, but she seemed to feel guilty about it afterward) I reacted with curiosity and interest and amusement. It was such a minor thing, but she started opening up to me a lot more around that point.

I think some NF male said something like that in one of his video challenge things: that his NT friends relaxed him because they were much less judgemental of him than he was of himself (?)...Don't recall exactly.

 

[Uytuun]

Especially since he is a man, I'd be careful not to be condescending towards him in these areas. I've seen a few INFP men complain they hate being "mothered" in a relationship. Sometimes because they are quiet & easygoing & - I'll just say it - a bit passive, these women with strong personalities steamroll them (often ExxJs). At first, the lazy P may go along with it, but over time, resent it.

Yes, you notice they kind of deal with the steamrolling and might be attracted by it even, but when you talk to them and just listen to them it becomes obvious that (someone listening and taking them seriously) is something they're craving.

Digest, I'd be more worried about not being able to provide enough "femininity" in an NT-NT relationship personally...but I guess if you want to figure it out it might help to ask him what his idea of "feminine" is.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

My question is this: what the hell is wrong with my INFP boyfriend that he PREFERS this over the NF counterpart?

There is no NF counterpart to digesthisickness. Maybe it isn't a preference for T over F. Maybe it's a preference for you?

 

[rav3n]

As an ENTP chick, I have a very real awareness of just how non-feminine I can be. (For those of you who don't have this problem, whoopdie-do, this isn't about you.)

Sure, sure, I love make-up (it brings out some creativity), and sure, sure, i love lingerie and pretty bras and panties, but when it comes to the stereotypical 'femaleness', i find myself lacking. it's extremely hard to explain as... well, all i can do is ask that you use what you already know regarding the differences between T and F women. I'm sure, if you've been on this site for any length of time, you've already noticed that there definitely is one.

My question is this: what the hell is wrong with my INFP boyfriend that he PREFERS this over the NF counterpart? it makes no sense to me. If anyone has any idea, i'd appreciate the insight.

Also, i'm very aware that i should just relax and enjoy it, and i do, i do, but... i'm also an analyzer. i can't help that. And, it bugs me that i can't figure this out. it bothers me that i can't just totally relax and assume 'this' will always be prefered.

i humbly defer to the much more qualified.

Let's change this up a bit. What is attraction? Is it always based on societal norms or constructs? Once you've really thought about how these two questions impact on your concerns, the next step is to accept that some relationships work and others don't, where there are no guarantees.

 

[Lady_X]

In my experience (keyword MY) – NFs do not somehow automatically adhere to traditional gender rolls/stereotypes. Yes, we can be a little on the romantic side. But the NFs that I know actually reject all the trappings generally associated with ‘what is feminine’ and ‘what is masculine’. In fact…the fact that you indicated that you ‘love make-up’ and utilized the word ‘panties’ instead of ‘underwear’ leads me to believe that you are far more feminine than I (and the other female NFs I know irl).

With that said…the INFP males I know irl (and the ISFP males as well)…tend to be slightly more feminine at heart – or I should say they possess characteristics that society may typically assign a label of ‘feminine’ in nature. In this way…perhaps he feels balanced out by you. I think this is a beautiful thing. I wouldn’t question it. I don’t know if this is what is coming into play in your situation – but either way I feel very happy for you!

yeah i agree with this...i feel like i sort of unconsciously reject the idea of traditional male/female behavior. i think attempting to define them is pointless. i know in many ways i'm pretty feminine...and a romantic and all that but...i don't know how to follow when dancing...i really don't...i don't know how to act demure...don't believe in waiting for the guy to make a move...so in many ways i feel like i take on the more male role....blah blah blah...the point is...i think people can have different areas in which they feel comfortable taking on different roles...rather they be feminine or masculine it doesn't really matter...so long as they feel good and natural to you and you're with someone who gets to play the part they prefer to play.

 

[Lady_X]

Oh whoops no. I totally took what you said at face-value - I didn't pick up on any vibe that you were saying or thinking anything 'bad' about NF females. And strangely (that we are on that subject) - that is what I like about NTs. I'm kinda too tired to speak to 'balancing each other out' and 'filling in each others blanks'...but I can tell you what I like about NTs. It is that in general they say what the mean and mean what they say. And they are difficult to offend. And it is all of THAT that makes NTs a comfort to be around. Like...as NF...I'm already hard-wired to 'please'...and try to think for others and anticipate their needs. God it can be so exhausting. It's like one big co-dependant relationship with the entire planet. And so being with an NT is a total relief. They are going to tell me the good, the bad and the ugly. They won't leave me guessing. In their presence I can let go of all that worry. It is a wonderful feeling.

yeah totally...with most people i'm always so afraid of offending them and it is soooo nice to have friends in your life that you can just say oh my god i hate you! and you both just laugh about it.

 

[Starry]

yeah i agree with this...i feel like i sort of unconsciously reject the idea of traditional male/female behavior. i think attempting to define them is pointless. i know in many ways i'm pretty feminine...and a romantic and all that but...i don't know how to follow when dancing...i really don't...i don't know how to act demure...don't believe in waiting for the guy to make a move...so in many ways i feel like i take on the more male role...

After reading what skylights wrote I started to wonder about the role enneagram has in the extent to which NFs adhere, ignore or even reject stereotypical gender rolls/appearance/behavior. I was thinking things like…maybe NF 4s and 7s are more likely to ignore traditional gender rolls (for different reasons)…while maybe NF 3s and 6s are more likely to welcome them. I don’t know.

I wonder if digest's bf is a 4.

the point is...i think people can have different areas in which they feel comfortable taking on different roles...rather they be feminine or masculine it doesn't really matter...so long as they feel good and natural to you and you're with someone who gets to play the part they prefer to play

^that was beautifully put.

 

[skylights]

After reading what skylights wrote I started to wonder about the role enneagram has in the extent to which NFs adhere, ignore or even reject stereotypical gender rolls/appearance/behavior. I was thinking things like…maybe NF 4s and 7s are more likely to ignore traditional gender rolls (for different reasons)…while maybe NF 3s and 6s are more likely to welcome them. I don’t know.

I wonder if digest's bf is a 4.

the point is...i think people can have different areas in which they feel comfortable taking on different roles...rather they be feminine or masculine it doesn't really matter...so long as they feel good and natural to you and you're with someone who gets to play the part they prefer to play

^that was beautifully put.

it was.

good point, starry. it seems to me that most NFs do play on the boundary lines of traditional roles, but some seem fairly impervious to them, while others are more cognizant of them. i think with 3s and 6s, in particular sx and so, there is going to be a heightened awareness of gender roles and stereotypes, and we'll generally know full well when we're crossing the boundaries according to our environment. whereas with some other NFs i think they just do their own thing and sometimes it crosses the boundaries and sometimes it doesn't. my own enneatype and variant together (sx 6) were dubbed "strength and beauty" by ichazo - a strong male/female binary, and i can easily say that i myself dance all over the line between the two. i'm sure digest's bf recognizes that she's way more awesome than a lot of women, but [MENTION=74]digesthisickness[/MENTION], he may not even realize how non-feminine you are. or like... he might not interpret it as not feminine. it might just be a "better" type of feminine through his eyes - because you are a girl, after all, so technically anything you do is feminine.

 

[the state i am in]

one of my best friends (male 7w6 sx/so entp is dating a 9w1 infp sp/sx female). i can't really speak for the reverse tho.

to me entps in particular help me with my story, with falsification, improve my sense of self-efficacy and confidence, and as an infj, are the most naturally compelling for me to just wander through and take turns exploring and unpacking each other's ideas. i think all N types like possibilities, but entps seem pretty good at managing them and organizing them somewhat precisely. their abilities to control the world around them is both impressive and, when shared, are a great fucking skill to offer in relationships. i don't know what your enneagrams are, but everyone likes ep 7s flow and energy. for 4 types, it's a particular boon because the accepting, harmonizing energy and enthusiasm is just refreshing and helps improve emotional circulation.

from the perspective of the nf male, and this is just what i'm learning, once we get over assuming we need nurturance and build healthy places/systems for ourselves that maintain our own sense of well-being, we learn that WE are supposed to be the capable initiators of intimacy in relationships. if he's gotten over his own gender conflicts and found solutions to assert a healthy self that runs somewhat against the grain of social expectation, then it just doesn't matter any more. and our increased openness to a much wider range of romantic and relational possibilities reflects the increased acceptance of and confidence in ourselves.

 

[themarlins]

Ok.

I'm ENTP male. Recently met an INFP female.

We're both sx/sp.

and....WOW. We're so similar, but also very different. Very interesting girl. I like her alot. She feels kind of like a good friend and I feel like Ive known her forever (even though its only been a shortwhile), yet theres still a ton of attraction. NFJ's feel less like friends and more like formal girlfriends. NFPs females feel like my twin-sister/childhood-friend, yet there is still a ton of attraction (sound weird?)

So regardless of genders. I think Entp/Infp is a good match, because at the end of the day you enjoy spending time with someone who feels like a true friend.

 

[digesthisickness]

I'm a woman, so I can't offer insight into the male INFP specifically, but as an INFP, I have a few ideas:

really glad you took the time to give it thought and then to write all of this. it made a lot of sense.

- NTs can feel like a "mind mate". Intellectual stimulation is huge for me, and I'd guess for many INFPs. Playful, interesting discussion often occurs with another NP
in a way you don't experience with other types.

i know i was starved for it. he seems to have unending patience with my tendency to go off on tangents, to speak metaphorically, to ponder useless possibilities, etc. sometimes, taking it much more serious actually than my ideas deserve. i had become resigned to never finding someone like that. someone who would not only listen, but then have INPUT. i mean, i had you guys, sure, but your skin feels plastic and hard.

- In regards to ENTPs, they are extroverts, and in a sense, I find their demeanor "warmer" than, say, some fellow IxFx types, due to being outgoing & more expressive with ideas/thoughts. I especially find this true of female ENTPs, who seem to have to develop their tert Fe a bit earlier in life. So he may appreciate an outgoing demeanor which contrasts his more reserved, introverted one. Extroversion is actually associated with femininity & introversion with masculinity, so in that sense, you sort of are a traditional pair.

wow. great point. i hadn't even considered that. i'll be pondering it further. first, i have to give more thought to how odd we are regarding just which things we each assert.

- INFPs often get called upon a lot to play therapist to their friends/family, and it can be emotionally draining. If you're emotionally low-maintenance, then he may find that a breath of fresh air. I mean, I know I do get sick of talking about feelings sometimes....really!

oh, he's totally different than i am in this regard. he feels responsible for others in a way that i never would. ever. i feel for him and listen whenever he wants to talk about it. and, well, since i don't feel responsible for people's feelings, then this is quite easy for me. i don't take it onto myself. i just hold him and appreciate that he's that way. it amazes me frankly, and i want to save him from it, but that would mean changing him. a thought that is reprehensible to me.

- Both being NPs, your approach to life in many ways may be similar, which eases conflict. I'm reading a book right now which details pros & cons of every MBTI pairing, and P+P relationships showed the least conflict over everyday, mundane issues like chores & plans.

sounds like a great read. i'd love to know the title. yeah, i was thinking about this just this morning while looking at the dirty clothes he'd thrown on the floor, beside the hamper. i thought, "that should probably bother me, but i got nothing." and, thought of how many times i've heard of people having arguments over such things. i'm glad we never do. i'm pretty upfront about my weaknesses and so is he, and since neither tend to be judgmental then it works out pretty well.

hmm.

What I personally don't like & find patronizing
- I don't need or want someone to think or make decisions for me

UGH!!! if he'd have been that way, i'd have never gotten to a second conversation, and he knows it. as far as i go, doing that to someone else is just as disgusting, so thank god that's not an issue.

- I don't need someone to handle my emotions for me; someone to listen & be sympathetic is more than enough

i can do that! actually, my god, i hope he doesn't need me to handle his emotions too often; he'll be screwed. i mean, i could luck out and get it right maybe once or twice, but if he needed it regularly, i'd fail... and, frankly be glad of it at that point.

- I don't want someone to think they're giving me perspective by belittling my feelings & perspective

again, a disgusting thought. i will keep it in mind though because it's possible to accidentally do such a thing. i can usually tell by his face. when i mess up, it's there. immediately.

Especially since he is a man, I'd be careful not to be condescending towards him in these areas. I've seen a few INFP men complain they hate being "mothered" in a relationship. Sometimes because they are quiet & easygoing & - I'll just say it - a bit passive, these women with strong personalities steamroll them (often ExxJs). At first, the lazy P may go along with it, but over time, resent it. I can't see an ENTP wanting to take a guy on as a pet project & mother him, though, so you probably have that advantage also. INFPs are actually pretty independent & appreciate people who let them do their own thing in their own way, and being NPs, ENTPs are pretty similar.

this entire paragraph makes me sad.

you've helped a ton with understanding his side of things. thanks again.

 

[digesthisickness]

ENTPs can be steady bouts of sunshine in an INF's chaotic inner life

he never looks like his innards are chaotic. either there's a lot going on that i know nothing about, or you're right? or, both possibly...

 

[digesthisickness]

sometimes too much alike is too much to take.

i know an ENTP or two IRL, both males (shock), and i'd have to agree with this. they're fantastic for a while. for exactly how long i usually like talking to myself. which admittedly can be a long time, but there's no fire, no chemistry, and it becomes apparent quickly. so, more to add to my equation regarding what my BF is suffering from.

i tend to prefer NJs and e3 and e8. serious, foresighted, assertive types. regardless of gender, they tend to be stereotypically more masculine. more in control. me - ENFP 6 - i'm more stereotypically feminine. which, me being a girl and all, that works fine, but it really is just all about the balance. i play yin and i like a yang - and when i'm well-balanced, the roles easily reverse.

(just read more thread) - i think in terms of balance, it's like the other person being stronger in areas you're weaker, but still being on the same basic page. since you guys share NP, you probably have a pretty similar way of looking at a lot of things, but T/F and I/E will mean you're both stronger in certain areas than the other.

heh. that's how he talks. he sees the balance. even uses that word when speaking of this subject, but like i said before, i just couldn't figure out where the balance IS. i see what i get easily, but was very cloudy on what he could possibly be getting. it's getting clearer now thanks to you guys. though i know already that i'll be bookmarking this for reference as i know i'll forget. it'll take a bit to penetrate.

me, i tend to lean emotionally on the other person because i feel things so deeply in the moment and tend to be a bit of a loose cannon. someone who is more assertive, who is more of a "rock", can counteract that tendency in me. whereas i have a strength of making people feel comfortable to open up and be at ease, so i can offer that to them in return. they can be strong for me and i can be weak for them... which flips into the opposite sometimes. i can rage like a fire when threatened and be strong for them, and they can open up and trust and share themselves emotionally and be weak for me - and we both have enough strength in those areas to be able to handle one anothers' relative incompetences.

oh, i do get that from him. it took a while for me to allow it, but bit by bit, he was able to gain my confidence and trust. he's only 'lost it' a couple of times, and i.. well, honestly, i just sat there expressionless and frankly wasn't effected by it at all. he's only pouted a few times.

i handled the pouting the same way. after a wee while, he always comes around. but then ready to talk and be more open about what's on his mind.

oh no, it's lovely. i think NFs have a tendency to be very fluid and to mirror others. if an NFP encounters something emotionally troubling, we can be thrown into chaos and turbulence inside. coming across someone "grounded" is like finding a zen garden in the middle of a jungle. interacting with them changes my inner landscape... i mirror their serenity instead of the raging storm.

here's another thought that hadn't occurred to me! he DOES do that. it just never registered before. i think because i'm so UNturbulent that it's caused a 'bad' mirroring only a very few times. usually, he's happy as hell. giddy really. so, i didn't give it the emphasis it deserved. thanks.

 

[digesthisickness]

Someone posted somewhere else on the forum that they can't imagine anything being girlier than having a vagina. It was really well-said.

I can't really describe it. To me, girls and guys have both masculine and feminine traits.. or what's been stereotypically assigned as gender-associated.
I think a girl that's in touch with both sides of these traits is more well-rounded, and a guy could appreciate that a lot. Guys still have to be able to relate to someone and be their friend when in a relationship with them--If you did absolutely everything in the most feminine way possible you might as well be an alien, he might not be able to connect to you so well.. So he prefers some masculine traits to show. That's my initial guess on it all.

very good point. it caused me to glare at him as he sleeps right now beside me. "how would you be with a totally feminine girlfriend, guy?"

bah, my vagina is terrible at this.

 

[digesthisickness]

Oh yeah, I recognize that. Not from any romantic relationship, but I was tight with an INFJ (I think, she was definitely an FJ of some sort) for a while and this seemed to play a part in why she was drawn to me. She was a big-time people pleaser, known to be very caring and accomodating toward people, always feeling like she had to go out of her way to meet their needs, be what they wanted, etc. The first time she showed her not-so-nice side to me (nothing major, just said the sort of random pissiness that passes through all our heads at times, but she seemed to feel guilty about it afterward) I reacted with curiosity and interest and amusement. It was such a minor thing, but she started opening up to me a lot more around that point.

I think some NF male said something like that in one of his video challenge things: that his NT friends relaxed him because they were much less judgemental of him than he was of himself (?)...Don't recall exactly.

hmm. every now and then, he'll act weird out of the blue, so i'll ask him what's up. i'm always shocked that it has something to do with being worried over some crap i never gave a second thought to. it never occurs to me that he'd have a reason to be insecure, but he gets that way sometimes. thank god he tells me what's going on as i get a HUGE kick out of not having to read minds/emotions, number one, and then, second, building him up in a really thorough way.

 

[digesthisickness]

There is no NF counterpart to digesthisickness. Maybe it isn't a preference for T over F. Maybe it's a preference for you?

i never know what to say to you when you get like this. but, i do know, and can say, that it was knowing you that sealed the idea in my head that an INFP could be exactly what i need.

 

[William K]

he never looks like his innards are chaotic. either there's a lot going on that i know nothing about, or you're right? or, both possibly...

It can be like a swan at times. All calm and unruffled while gliding above the surface, but underneath all the thoughts and emotions are churning like the swan's feet

 

[digesthisickness]

It can be like a swan at times. All calm and unruffled while gliding above the surface, but underneath all the thoughts and emotions are churning like the swan's feet

that's terrifying.

is this going to be one of those things where i'm screwing up, but don't know because no one is saying, and then WHAM, it's over? you can tell me.