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  1. #21
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm a woman, so I can't offer insight into the male INFP specifically, but as an INFP, I have a few ideas:

    - NTs can feel like a "mind mate". Intellectual stimulation is huge for me, and I'd guess for many INFPs. Playful, interesting discussion often occurs with another NP
    in a way you don't experience with other types.
    - In regards to ENTPs, they are extroverts, and in a sense, I find their demeanor "warmer" than, say, some fellow IxFx types, due to being outgoing & more expressive with ideas/thoughts. I especially find this true of female ENTPs, who seem to have to develop their tert Fe a bit earlier in life. So he may appreciate an outgoing demeanor which contrasts his more reserved, introverted one. Extroversion is actually associated with femininity & introversion with masculinity, so in that sense, you sort of are a traditional pair.
    - INFPs often get called upon a lot to play therapist to their friends/family, and it can be emotionally draining. If you're emotionally low-maintenance, then he may find that a breath of fresh air. I mean, I know I do get sick of talking about feelings sometimes....really!
    - Both being NPs, your approach to life in many ways may be similar, which eases conflict. I'm reading a book right now which details pros & cons of every MBTI pairing, and P+P relationships showed the least conflict over everyday, mundane issues like chores & plans.

    What I personally don't like & find patronizing
    - I don't need or want someone to think or make decisions for me
    - I don't need someone to handle my emotions for me; someone to listen & be sympathetic is more than enough
    - I don't want someone to think they're giving me perspective by belittling my feelings & perspective

    Especially since he is a man, I'd be careful not to be condescending towards him in these areas. I've seen a few INFP men complain they hate being "mothered" in a relationship. Sometimes because they are quiet & easygoing & - I'll just say it - a bit passive, these women with strong personalities steamroll them (often ExxJs). At first, the lazy P may go along with it, but over time, resent it. I can't see an ENTP wanting to take a guy on as a pet project & mother him, though, so you probably have that advantage also. INFPs are actually pretty independent & appreciate people who let them do their own thing in their own way, and being NPs, ENTPs are pretty similar.
    great post! he's home now, so my attention has wandered in his direction, but i'll be responding soon. thanks.

    p.s. also to skylights and kyuuei as well.
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  2. #22
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    ENTPs can be steady bouts of sunshine in an INF's chaotic inner life
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  3. #23
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    ...when he began opening up to me, he found out quickly that i'm also practically impossible to shock, and he seemed to appreciate that. that i took what he carried as a secret weight inside him as simply "being human" and took it further by appreciating his honesty and openness.
    Oh yeah, I recognize that. Not from any romantic relationship, but I was tight with an INFJ (I think, she was definitely an FJ of some sort) for a while and this seemed to play a part in why she was drawn to me. She was a big-time people pleaser, known to be very caring and accomodating toward people, always feeling like she had to go out of her way to meet their needs, be what they wanted, etc. The first time she showed her not-so-nice side to me (nothing major, just said the sort of random pissiness that passes through all our heads at times, but she seemed to feel guilty about it afterward) I reacted with curiosity and interest and amusement. It was such a minor thing, but she started opening up to me a lot more around that point.

    I think some NF male said something like that in one of his video challenge things: that his NT friends relaxed him because they were much less judgemental of him than he was of himself (?)...Don't recall exactly.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Especially since he is a man, I'd be careful not to be condescending towards him in these areas. I've seen a few INFP men complain they hate being "mothered" in a relationship. Sometimes because they are quiet & easygoing & - I'll just say it - a bit passive, these women with strong personalities steamroll them (often ExxJs). At first, the lazy P may go along with it, but over time, resent it.
    Yes, you notice they kind of deal with the steamrolling and might be attracted by it even, but when you talk to them and just listen to them it becomes obvious that (someone listening and taking them seriously) is something they're craving.

    Digest, I'd be more worried about not being able to provide enough "femininity" in an NT-NT relationship personally...but I guess if you want to figure it out it might help to ask him what his idea of "feminine" is.

  5. #25
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    My question is this: what the hell is wrong with my INFP boyfriend that he PREFERS this over the NF counterpart?
    There is no NF counterpart to digesthisickness. Maybe it isn't a preference for T over F. Maybe it's a preference for you?

  6. #26
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    As an ENTP chick, I have a very real awareness of just how non-feminine I can be. (For those of you who don't have this problem, whoopdie-do, this isn't about you.)

    Sure, sure, I love make-up (it brings out some creativity), and sure, sure, i love lingerie and pretty bras and panties, but when it comes to the stereotypical 'femaleness', i find myself lacking. it's extremely hard to explain as... well, all i can do is ask that you use what you already know regarding the differences between T and F women. I'm sure, if you've been on this site for any length of time, you've already noticed that there definitely is one.

    My question is this: what the hell is wrong with my INFP boyfriend that he PREFERS this over the NF counterpart? it makes no sense to me. If anyone has any idea, i'd appreciate the insight.

    Also, i'm very aware that i should just relax and enjoy it, and i do, i do, but... i'm also an analyzer. i can't help that. And, it bugs me that i can't figure this out. it bothers me that i can't just totally relax and assume 'this' will always be prefered.

    i humbly defer to the much more qualified.
    Let's change this up a bit. What is attraction? Is it always based on societal norms or constructs? Once you've really thought about how these two questions impact on your concerns, the next step is to accept that some relationships work and others don't, where there are no guarantees.

  7. #27
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    In my experience (keyword MY) – NFs do not somehow automatically adhere to traditional gender rolls/stereotypes. Yes, we can be a little on the romantic side. But the NFs that I know actually reject all the trappings generally associated with ‘what is feminine’ and ‘what is masculine’. In fact…the fact that you indicated that you ‘love make-up’ and utilized the word ‘panties’ instead of ‘underwear’ leads me to believe that you are far more feminine than I (and the other female NFs I know irl).

    With that said…the INFP males I know irl (and the ISFP males as well)…tend to be slightly more feminine at heart – or I should say they possess characteristics that society may typically assign a label of ‘feminine’ in nature. In this way…perhaps he feels balanced out by you. I think this is a beautiful thing. I wouldn’t question it. I don’t know if this is what is coming into play in your situation – but either way I feel very happy for you!
    yeah i agree with this...i feel like i sort of unconsciously reject the idea of traditional male/female behavior. i think attempting to define them is pointless. i know in many ways i'm pretty feminine...and a romantic and all that but...i don't know how to follow when dancing...i really don't...i don't know how to act demure...don't believe in waiting for the guy to make a move...so in many ways i feel like i take on the more male role....blah blah blah...the point is...i think people can have different areas in which they feel comfortable taking on different roles...rather they be feminine or masculine it doesn't really matter...so long as they feel good and natural to you and you're with someone who gets to play the part they prefer to play.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #28
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    Oh whoops no. I totally took what you said at face-value - I didn't pick up on any vibe that you were saying or thinking anything 'bad' about NF females. And strangely (that we are on that subject) - that is what I like about NTs. I'm kinda too tired to speak to 'balancing each other out' and 'filling in each others blanks'...but I can tell you what I like about NTs. It is that in general they say what the mean and mean what they say. And they are difficult to offend. And it is all of THAT that makes NTs a comfort to be around. Like...as NF...I'm already hard-wired to 'please'...and try to think for others and anticipate their needs. God it can be so exhausting. It's like one big co-dependant relationship with the entire planet. And so being with an NT is a total relief. They are going to tell me the good, the bad and the ugly. They won't leave me guessing. In their presence I can let go of all that worry. It is a wonderful feeling.
    yeah totally...with most people i'm always so afraid of offending them and it is soooo nice to have friends in your life that you can just say oh my god i hate you! and you both just laugh about it.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #29
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    yeah i agree with this...i feel like i sort of unconsciously reject the idea of traditional male/female behavior. i think attempting to define them is pointless. i know in many ways i'm pretty feminine...and a romantic and all that but...i don't know how to follow when dancing...i really don't...i don't know how to act demure...don't believe in waiting for the guy to make a move...so in many ways i feel like i take on the more male role...
    After reading what skylights wrote I started to wonder about the role enneagram has in the extent to which NFs adhere, ignore or even reject stereotypical gender rolls/appearance/behavior. I was thinking things like…maybe NF 4s and 7s are more likely to ignore traditional gender rolls (for different reasons)…while maybe NF 3s and 6s are more likely to welcome them. I don’t know.

    I wonder if digest's bf is a 4.

    the point is...i think people can have different areas in which they feel comfortable taking on different roles...rather they be feminine or masculine it doesn't really matter...so long as they feel good and natural to you and you're with someone who gets to play the part they prefer to play
    ^that was beautifully put.

  10. #30
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    After reading what skylights wrote I started to wonder about the role enneagram has in the extent to which NFs adhere, ignore or even reject stereotypical gender rolls/appearance/behavior. I was thinking things like…maybe NF 4s and 7s are more likely to ignore traditional gender rolls (for different reasons)…while maybe NF 3s and 6s are more likely to welcome them. I don’t know.

    I wonder if digest's bf is a 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X
    the point is...i think people can have different areas in which they feel comfortable taking on different roles...rather they be feminine or masculine it doesn't really matter...so long as they feel good and natural to you and you're with someone who gets to play the part they prefer to play
    ^that was beautifully put.
    it was.

    good point, starry. it seems to me that most NFs do play on the boundary lines of traditional roles, but some seem fairly impervious to them, while others are more cognizant of them. i think with 3s and 6s, in particular sx and so, there is going to be a heightened awareness of gender roles and stereotypes, and we'll generally know full well when we're crossing the boundaries according to our environment. whereas with some other NFs i think they just do their own thing and sometimes it crosses the boundaries and sometimes it doesn't. my own enneatype and variant together (sx 6) were dubbed "strength and beauty" by ichazo - a strong male/female binary, and i can easily say that i myself dance all over the line between the two. i'm sure digest's bf recognizes that she's way more awesome than a lot of women, but @digesthisickness, he may not even realize how non-feminine you are. or like... he might not interpret it as not feminine. it might just be a "better" type of feminine through his eyes - because you are a girl, after all, so technically anything you do is feminine.

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