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  1. #1
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Unhappy ENFJ: Cutting Someone Off For Good and the Aftershocks

    I was presented with an opportunity to be in the company of someone, an ENTP friend that I used to be extremely tight with, that I had been forced to excise from my life due to their own hideous behavior. I had to deal with the bodies and carnage that their ten-car pile-up caused - not them.

    The very prospect of being forced to be in the room with this person caused me to meltdown.

    Can I even begin to explain what a titanic effort it took to cut this person off from me? I couldn't just cut down the tree - I had to rip it up by the roots and set it on fire and watch the last embers die out before I walked away. I never wanted to do it - I wavered before taking action due to my love for this person even when I knew logically that it was inevitable.

    I wanted them to STOP. Please just STOP and let it go back to the way it was. I had to make you dead to me just to cope with what you did.

    My own reaction surprised me. I burst out shouting, then crumbled immediately into stone silence. I stared straight ahead, couldn't speak. I didn't cry, but tears oozed out of my eyes. Sis sat next to me, put her arm around my shoulders. I wish I had her ability to flex, to reopen a closed (nailed-shut) door. She told me to stay out of sight. I folded up on the bed and slept.

    I called my ENTJ best friend the next day and told her what happened. She understood on a gut level. If someone drives us to that point, how can they live again - how can we take the sword out of their hearts? I've completely cut someone important off from me maybe 2 or 3 times in my life and it was traumatizing each time.

    How do you react to such a scenario?
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  2. #2
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    Gahhhh I had written out response to you but it got deleted. I will retype later.

  3. #3
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    It is very difficult for me to cut people from my life. I can distance myself from someone easily--I've never had trouble with this. There are people I met in my life where they just don't really need to be there anymore.. or I don't really want them to be there anymore..

    But cutting them off.. saying "You will never be in my life again. Do not interact with me"?? It is difficult on me.. I had an ex that was absolutely toxic. I was naive, too busy, and focused and so I missed many of the HUGE Red warning flags and before I knew it I was in a whirlwind of a mess that took me leaving to another country to drag myself out of. I got cut off from all my friends in the process of it all, and that isn't even mentioning the rumors I had to lay to rest from all the shit-talking he did to get back at me, because, fuck me.

    When I came back, my eyes were wide open, and I was a completely changed person. Going to a place where you're never sure if you'll live or die that day does that to a person. I wasn't concerned with all the little things that exploded back then. He wanted to hash things out from the past--I wondered why.. Curiosity led me to sit with him and we discussed things. It came down to him apologizing and thanking me, and me saying "I don't care about you anymore. Live your life, I hope you'll have less regrets next time." To me, I thought that was all of it. We're adults, with many mutual friends, so I told him I'd be civil as long as he acted civil as well.

    Slowly but surely, he started to try interacting with me the moment he lost his girlfriend. He messaged me, saying how it's a shame we're not aware of what's in each other's lives anymore, and how he'd like grow to be a sort of best friend to me, etc. ... Not knowing I was fully aware of the shit he was still talking behind my back. Even without knowing though, my response would have stayed the same.

    In summary, "I don't know what part of "I don't care about you" you didn't understand.. so I'll make it painfully clear now. GTFO my life. You don't need me, and I certainly have no use for you. Ever. Don't contact me, talk to me, say hi to me, nothing. Stay away from me. I'll do the same."

    I think it hurt more that I HAD to say that, than actually saying it did. Maybe if I'd made myself clearer back then, instead of putting things in nicer conversation, I wouldn't have needed to bother with it at all.. but it is what it is. Saying it, and being done with it all, was a relief.. Everyone knowing that we're for sure not on friendly terms at all--I didn't feel bad creating an enemy at all. Not threatened, or sad, or anything.

    I did feel extremely hurt though.. Even if he was being genuine, I'd never have a way of knowing and there'd be no trusting him to get to a genuine feeling or emotion. He was too fake, too much of a liar, and too exploitative and selfish back then for me to ever think of him as being different. His little antics throughout the time passed didn't help, but even if he'd walked a straight path, he was no longer something of use in my life. He couldn't be. I guess my point is, I didn't care for this man that much to begin with one way or the other... but I was still very hurt when I had to force a bridge to be burned. I was shaking a bit afterwards, and I didn't even notice it until I went to pick something up and dropped it.

    It's just emotionally unsettling and heavy.. there is never any comfort around a foe once friend. If I were you.. I'd only take comfort in the fact that, logically, it is the right thing to do. There isn't anything comforting about having to see people for the dark things they are.
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  4. #4
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    But cutting them off.. saying "You will never be in my life again. Do not interact with me"?? It is difficult on me.. I had an ex that was absolutely toxic. I was naive, too busy, and focused and so I missed many of the HUGE Red warning flags and before I knew it I was in a whirlwind of a mess that took me leaving to another country to drag myself out of. I got cut off from all my friends in the process of it all, and that isn't even mentioning the rumors I had to lay to rest from all the shit-talking he did to get back at me, because, fuck me.
    That sounds like a truly painful experience.

    When I came back, my eyes were wide open, and I was a completely changed person. Going to a place where you're never sure if you'll live or die that day does that to a person. I wasn't concerned with all the little things that exploded back then.
    Battling for my life has done this to me as well. Thank you, soldier girl.

    I think it hurt more that I HAD to say that, than actually saying it did.
    Yes. Oh yes, this is it. Why did they push so hard? They knew I would respond with a count of 3, give them a chance to rectify, then be forced to hit them between the eyes. I was so grieved, spent so much time trying to extricate myself from that morass.

    Maybe if I'd made myself clearer back then, instead of putting things in nicer conversation, I wouldn't have needed to bother with it at all.. but it is what it is. Saying it, and being done with it all, was a relief.. Everyone knowing that we're for sure not on friendly terms at all--I didn't feel bad creating an enemy at all. Not threatened, or sad, or anything.
    In many ways, he was already your enemy - *he* just didn't know it yet. He overestimated his own importance to you. Supreme arrogance and self-delusion will do that.

    I was shaking a bit afterwards, and I didn't even notice it until I went to pick something up and dropped it.
    I did that too. I was quivering all over like I'd actually been in a physical fight. I felt sick to my stomach for days because of this person. In my mind, they truly were dead.

    There isn't anything comforting about having to see people for the dark things they are.
    I'm in the salvage business, but unlike when I was young and inexperienced, some things are just junk and need to be left in a heap. Having to place the "unsalvagable" label anywhere near this person grieved me deeply. It shuts off all roads back from perdition. I may be quick to make decisions and be built to separate wheat from chaff, but people aren't wheat, they're people with souls and complications, and I leave the slimmest chance of redemption in play, at least in the back of my mind even if not in practice.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  5. #5
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I'd like others to respond to this - you don't have to be an ENFJ.

    I only started this thread because of the stunning reaction I had, wondering if other ENFJs felt the same way. But I'd be interested to see the common thread amongst us everyone.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  6. #6
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Yes. Oh yes, this is it. Why did they push so hard? They knew I would respond with a count of 3, give them a chance to rectify, then be forced to hit them between the eyes. I was so grieved, spent so much time trying to extricate myself from that morass.
    And it isn't like you can back down either. It's like watching a car wreck into a building--you know the building is going to be smashed, but you're can't move or waiver. The car'll destroy everything when it had the power to brake.

    In many ways, he was already your enemy - *he* just didn't know it yet. He overestimated his own importance to you. Supreme arrogance and self-delusion will do that
    Spoken from experience, those words were. Truly, he was my enemy.

    I did that too. I was quivering all over like I'd actually been in a physical fight. I felt sick to my stomach for days because of this person. In my mind, they truly were dead.
    What else could he be? The man you thought you knew and loved is gone--and dead for all purposes you'd ever need. A shell, walking vacant. This comment reminded me of the music video for Hellbent, by Kenna. The alien starts out so full of life and possibilities, and then everything corrupts him until he's so empty it's almost scary to see.

    I may be quick to make decisions and be built to separate wheat from chaff, but people aren't wheat, they're people with souls and complications, and I leave the slimmest chance of redemption in play, at least in the back of my mind even if not in practice.
    I think an important part of this is that YOU aren't the one that will offer him redemption now. He could go on to live a better life else where with other people, but it isn't your concern anymore. It won't be you he repents to.. It shouldn't be either. Anything he says or does from this point forward will be damage--that's the way it is, and HE created that atmosphere. Not you. I did tell the guy that he had friends who did care for him, and that he should move on and be a better friend to them.. It isn't me he needs to worry about. I'm better without him.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

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  7. #7
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    To the very core of me, I cannot stand needing to cut someone off that I've felt deeply bonded with. I can tolerate it better, somewhat, if I don't have to be faced with them at any future point and if it was truly that toxic, but it still makes my skin crawl.
    I actually don't think I've cut someone off that really meant something to me, or would affect me to attempt to cut off, based on their behavior. In many cases it's been unintentional, or through finding out how their feelings didn't match up with mine on the friendship after slight altercation. Many of the ones that mattered beyond all else allowed us to find our ways back to one another despite harsh times and words. There are always wounds to be licked, but the years have tended to bring growth.

    There is only one person in my life that I've found to be toxic to the point where I want to disembowel any interaction we could have, but I've not found a successful way to do so. She is some kind of unhealthy ExFJ. I used to think ENFJ, but I can't even be sure anymore, nor would I like to delve anywhere near her twisted psyche to properly determine it. She's a black cloud that looms over and suffocates everything. She suffocated my ability to feel like a human being right out of me on/off for a year. When we were on in the friendship, we were on. When we were off, I don't think I could have felt more off as a living thing. There's no ray of sunshine or hope in who she is, and she won't even allow for an ounce of it. The reason I've not been able to cut her off is because there is no escaping her. She attends my college, my gym, certain same classes, goes to the bar I karaoke at, knows a fair number of people that I know, etc.
    Weighing out future scenarios is enough to cause me a mental meltdown as I see no win/win situation, and her emotions are a 100-mile-radius tidal wave that will drown me and anyone else in the same room if there is a true falling out. Definitely one of the only situations I've been faced with where I'm not really concerned about losing the person, but definitely concerned about the intensity of the repercussions of fully cutting ties. More so, lost for a means of how to really do so.

    Anyway, as per situations where there isn't contact, hasn't been contact, and it makes my insides well up to think of impromptu contact.. they haunt me. I want to reach out, but know it's for the best that I don't. I am emotionally hurt over it and the damage done for years, and may remain so for many more years. I end up feeling that a piece of me has been ripped away and I long for it back, even if it's for the best. Those people become ghost limbs and I miss everything that was good about them and cringe on the inside about what went awry.
    I've been lucky to rarely-to-never be around any of them again. I can just imagine all of the welling-up of tenseness I'd feel toward the situation. The panic and anxiety. The utter internal chaos, and then not being able to relax were I near them, even if I were to maintain a sense of civil. I actually feel that way around the ExFJ, as though there is this overwhelming tension that I need to breathe through in order to keep sane near her.
    Worst of all.. it isn't dreading the person alone, but dreading the fact that they give me reason to dread them. I end up feeling even more distraught over the fact that something has pushed and is pushing my emotions to that point. Like a "Don't you understand what you're doing?"
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  8. #8
    Self sustaining supernova Zoom's Avatar
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    It sounds like you reacted as healthily as is possible to a highly poisonous substance, Domino... if there is no chance of redemption they do not have the right to expect a damn thing from you. Time, effort, words - nothing. They passed the point of no return, and the people they messed up in the process have all the choice in this matter - presenting themself is all they are allowed to do, and even then it better be in a damn good fashion, with... balloons and a gift of a pony. Or somesuch.

    As for me: There is only one person I would attack on sight, no questions asked... and that's the sort of response I think ye're including in this query.

    Mine is the ex-boyfriend of my mother, who "took care" of me during my teens while my mother traveled abroad for her job. An ex-Marine and former cop who owned guns, was bipolar, and had black belts in two distinctly effective martial arts, boundary issues, as well as a masters in psychology. Unstable with the skillsets to harm on several levels. I've found his number on Mater's phone on occasion, and I always download the app to block the number so contact is never made.

    The impact he had upon my family was to break it, and it was only after he finally left that a lot of issues in myself and my family began to heal. At one point (before the shite hit the fan) during my early teens I was close to him, yes, and did do everything in my power to eject him from my life at the highest velocity possible once he went cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

    He was bloody evil. I don't know what he's like now. I don't want to. If he ever came back into my life or even merely my presence I would have the same reaction as ye, plus a spot of violence.

    As for cutting someone out for good, or ejecting them, all that jazz - it takes forever for me to get there. I tend to bend, flex and adapt around others' needs to the point that my own boundaries are mutable at times - which means I used to honestly put up with a lot more personal crap than I should have before I would actually be willing to cut them out of my life. Like ye guys spoke of - they must be past the point of possible redemption, with no chance of healing or coming back into the light.

    When I slam the door in someone's face, it is generally final, and if they've screwed me over various times they don't get another chance - that means they've burned through the five or dozen ones I gave them in the first place, eh?

  9. #9
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    To the very core of me, I cannot stand needing to cut someone off that I've felt deeply bonded with. I can tolerate it better, somewhat, if I don't have to be faced with them at any future point and if it was truly that toxic, but it still makes my skin crawl.
    +1

    I actually don't think I've cut someone off that really meant something to me, or would affect me to attempt to cut off, based on their behavior.
    And I never thought I would have to do it myself. That's one of the hardest parts to accept.


    In many cases it's been unintentional, or through finding out how their feelings didn't match up with mine on the friendship after slight altercation. Many of the ones that mattered beyond all else allowed us to find our ways back to one another despite harsh times and words. There are always wounds to be licked, but the years have tended to bring growth.
    Again, very much understand.

    There is only one person in my life that I've found to be toxic to the point where I want to disembowel any interaction we could have, but I've not found a successful way to do so. She is some kind of unhealthy ExFJ. I used to think ENFJ, but I can't even be sure anymore, nor would I like to delve anywhere near her twisted psyche to properly determine it. She's a black cloud that looms over and suffocates everything. She suffocated my ability to feel like a human being right out of me on/off for a year. When we were on in the friendship, we were on. When we were off, I don't think I could have felt more off as a living thing. There's no ray of sunshine or hope in who she is, and she won't even allow for an ounce of it. The reason I've not been able to cut her off is because there is no escaping her. She attends my college, my gym, certain same classes, goes to the bar I karaoke at, knows a fair number of people that I know, etc.
    I know this feeling, I know this person. I have one of these. And you have my deepest condolences.

    Weighing out future scenarios is enough to cause me a mental meltdown as I see no win/win situation, and her emotions are a 100-mile-radius tidal wave that will drown me and anyone else in the same room if there is a true falling out. Definitely one of the only situations I've been faced with where I'm not really concerned about losing the person, but definitely concerned about the intensity of the repercussions of fully cutting ties. More so, lost for a means of how to really do so.
    This raises another aspect of the aftershocks: the toll it takes in collateral damages. You find yourself - almost like a stuntman - choosing how best to fall so that you can walk away - crawl away slowly, if you have to - because these sorts of interactions, these extinction level events, go through me like bullets. I take the pain they cause me, the pain they cause others, the destruction they wreck, into myself automatically, so I find myself throwing up the poison for days, weeks, months even, after these conflicts.

    Anyway, as per situations where there isn't contact, hasn't been contact, and it makes my insides well up to think of impromptu contact.. they haunt me. I want to reach out, but know it's for the best that I don't. I am emotionally hurt over it and the damage done for years, and may remain so for many more years. I end up feeling that a piece of me has been ripped away and I long for it back, even if it's for the best. Those people become ghost limbs and I miss everything that was good about them and cringe on the inside about what went awry.
    Beautifully said. I think that's why I erupted about this person - they forced the amputation. I did everything to salvage it, but they just kept sickening, almost belligerently, deliberately. There's a deep resentment over their loss.


    I've been lucky to rarely-to-never be around any of them again. I can just imagine all of the welling-up of tenseness I'd feel toward the situation. The panic and anxiety. The utter internal chaos, and then not being able to relax were I near them, even if I were to maintain a sense of civil. I actually feel that way around the ExFJ, as though there is this overwhelming tension that I need to breathe through in order to keep sane near her.
    Worst of all.. it isn't dreading the person alone, but dreading the fact that they give me reason to dread them. I end up feeling even more distraught over the fact that something has pushed and is pushing my emotions to that point. Like a "Don't you understand what you're doing?"
    +1
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  10. #10
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
    It sounds like you reacted as healthily as is possible to a highly poisonous substance, Domino... if there is no chance of redemption they do not have the right to expect a damn thing from you. Time, effort, words - nothing. They passed the point of no return, and the people they messed up in the process have all the choice in this matter - presenting themself is all they are allowed to do, and even then it better be in a damn good fashion, with... balloons and a large cake.
    I repeat this to myself over and over waiting for it to stick and become permanent in my mind, like a bandage over a wound, to make it hurt less.


    As for me: There is only one person I would attack on sight, no questions asked... and that's the sort of response I think ye're including in this query.
    Indeed. Tell us your story...

    Mine is the ex-boyfriend of my mother, who "took care" of me during my teens. An ex-Marine and former cop who owned guns, was bipolar, and had black belts in two distinctly effective martial arts, boundary issues, as well as a masters in psychology. Unstable with the skillsets to harm on several levels. I've found his number on Mater's phone on occasion, and I always download the app to block the number so contact is never made.

    The impact he had upon my family was to break it, and it was only after he finally left that a lot of issues in myself and my family began to heal. At one point (before the shite hit the fan) during my early teens I was close to him, yes, and did do everything in my power to eject him from my life at the highest velocity possible once he went cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
    HORRIBLE. There would be no way to avoid taking damage from a man like that.

    He was bloody evil. I don't know what he's like now. I don't want to. If he ever came back into my life or even merely my presence I would have the same reaction as ye, plus a spot of violence.
    There are people we don't OWE an audience to, even if they've "changed" for real or not. This is NOT about forgiveness - I see forgiveness as a process, something healing - but about establishing boundaries and saying "You shall not pass".

    I've chosen, at this time, to not deal with this person on any level. They've made their apologies to those they've hurt, and that consoles my former pain, though no apology has been offered to me. Is an apology important? I'm asking myself that.

    As for cutting someone out for good, or ejecting them, all that jazz - it takes forever for me to get there. I tend to bend, flex and adapt around others' needs to the point that my own boundaries are mutable at times - which means I used to honestly put up with a lot more personal crap than I should have before I would actually be willing to cut them out of my life. Like ye guys spoke of - they must be past the point of possible redemption, with no chance of healing or coming back into the light.
    +1

    When I slam the door in someone's face, it is generally final, and if they've screwed me over various times they don't get another chance - that means they've burned through the five or dozen ones I gave them in the first place, eh?
    If they couldn't see that they were heading in this direction, they were the blindest of the blind.
    If they could see, they were sadists.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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