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  1. #21
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    I relate to the OP, in that I can picture that happening to me. That level of agitation is what I would feel inside in a similar situation. It seems to be that I get these sensations running through my body when I'm getting ready for conflict stemming from a really unfair situation.
    Makes it feel that much more intense and bad, doesn't it?

    I think I'm scared of really wounding someone even when they damn well deserve it. Any extremely strong emotion that I don't welcome and repress will manifest itself physically. It used to be distressing for me because it would come out of nowhere... But now I know what to expect and I don't judge myself for having those things coursing through me and it seems to be less distressing for me.
    +1

    It's a strange, super-bodily experience though. I don't usually feel things intensely through my body. I know it means something though and I listen better to it these days and try to use it to navigate all of my relationships more evenly.
    Is this something you were born with or something you've acquired?

    There have been a few instances where I've felt it, I remember running into my ex BFF one day (horrible, dramatic, messy ending to the friendship) and my knees just buckled. It hurt so much to see her and I knew she was hurting and embarrassed too.
    I find the loss of a friendship a great deal more devastating than any romantic one.

    Also, once at a friend's wedding where I was forced to be in the room with the ex of my then BF. She had talked all kinds of things about him and us, just couldn't get over him at all and then became fixated on me. Anyway, she kept wanting to sit near me wherever I would go. And I knew if I just didn't keep ignoring her, if I said one word I would have exploded in the middle of our mutual friend's reception. I had to go outside and just lean against a wall for a bit because I was soooo angry. (I ended up letting her have it a few years later in a very cool way, after she still kept talking about me and mine, she never bothered us again. That felt good and right).

    Mostly what happens for me is uncontrollable shaking, it must be because a shot of adrenaline goes through my system, my heart beats so fast and my teeth chatter and my body shakes, it's very strange.

    With regard to cutting people out of my life... I don't think I have the heart for doorslamming anymore. The last time I tried to push someone away and was supremely harsh, I saw this look in his eyes that just killed me. It made me feel really bad. That was always my go-to tactic when I had to make things end. I'm a little concerned about how to cut someone out of my life now without that.
    Thank you so much for sharing this.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  2. #22
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I relate to the mental anguish and powerful physical symptoms associated with situations like these. I've had times when I started to shake (teeth chattering and all) much like Violaine described out of anger and distress. I'm used to strong physical symptoms when I'm really distressed, unfortunately - I tend to suffer from nausea and fatigue and backaches but yeah, if confronted with a really agitating situation I have found myself shaking or feeling something which I assume is like road rage (almost like I could hit someone.)
    The primal brain is preparing for fight or flight. Amazong how it still exerts itself so strongly to protect us, even from the intangible threats.

    I have mixed feelings about cutting people out. I can think of maybe three times I've tried to doorslam someone. They all got back in, but all the situations are different. One of them got back in when he came back and apologised years later (albeit somewhat indirectly, but then we were able to talk about it.) He had hurt my feelings badly and I had dreams about him for years. I thought he didn't care but some stuff got back to me through the friend grapevine to indicate that he did much more than I'd thought. So we re-entered each other's lives but things had moved on and changed so much that we weren't going to be more than acquaintances. At least amicable ones, which is good. It wouldn't be more now than a once a year Facebook message or something.

    Another was a female friend I doorslammed, explaining to her in detail why I was doing it...! We were both reacting to things badly at that time. I should have told her how I'd been feeling about where our friendship was going before doing something that extreme. She kind of slowly clawed her way back in and ultimately we discussed it and things are ok again. I just need to be careful about communication pitfalls with her but otherwise things are fine.

    Another was a guy friend who'd hurt my feelings badly on several occasions and just generally shown a lot of mixed messages, lack of care and general tendency to be a user. When I tried to doorslam him he came back and apologised (actually, that happened more than once with him...) and I was so touched that I wrote it all off. However, a few months later it fell apart (sort of) when I realised he was using me for free therapy and called him on it. There was no doorslamming - in fact, I probably tried a little too hard to leave the door ajar. If anything he came closer to doorslamming me, though it was more like a mutual decision to just let things drift apart. He did ask me to his leaving party before he left the country and I went to be amicable, but I don't think there's much trust or desire to maintain things left between us.
    That last guy, I've had one of those. Free therapy and multiple apologies. I think it's a great deal more difficult to deal with that type than one that is clearly and outrightly hostile to our well-being.

    I didn't doorslam my ex boyfriend, as it just wasn't practical at the time because we saw too much of each other for unavoidable reasons. But now that we live in different countries the door has just kind of quietly closed. When he tried to friend me on FB a couple of years ago I didn't respond. He's not quite dead to me, but fairly close. I have no interest in ever having him in my life again and don't feel much over it. I think by the time I got through all the pain over that there was just absolutely nothing left except maybe a very faint resentment. There are a few other people, mainly in that same city/country, who I feel similarly about though they're not exes or ex-best friends. I just realised in retrospect that there was some crappy behaviour and disrespect from them, I feel no liking or respect for them and wouldn't want them around at all. Although, saying hello politely wouldn't be a problem, and if forced I'd do that with the ex too but hopefully as briefly as possible.

    I'm in another "mutually drifting apart" situation now and would prefer to keep the door closed on the person, though it wasn't a slam. I don't think maintaining them in my life would cause me anything better than pain and discomfort. I'm still having dreams about them and a certain amount of distress and preoccupation with the situation. It's hard when it feels like there's uncertainty and unfinished business, which there tends to be. I would really love to wipe my memory sometimes, especially because when someone is on my mind, everything - but everything - reminds me of them, especially anything we enjoyed together, experienced together, discussed or joked about, etc.
    If you can close a door without slamming it, I say all the better.

    Some people are toxic and you have to let them go or even slam the door. Some people it's not so much toxicity, but the emotional impact of keeping them around is not worth it. If they have behaved hideously you have every excuse to shut them out, but if it's more ambiguous (disappointed expectations, lower-level but ongoing hurtful behaviour, etc) it can be even harder in some ways. I'm wary about letting people back in though I guess a couple of times it has more or less worked out.

    Also, to get over someone (especially romantically) it's almost like I HAVE to dislike and resent them. I know that's not good, but I can't keep hanging onto the good stuff, it makes it harder. So there tends to be a long period of resentment and hurt and then - just nothing, which is blessed relief. But it obviously kills any friendship/relationship. If it's someone I was in love with or had strong feelings for I sort of go from the extreme of idealizing them and caring almost too much, to seeing everything they did wrong and dwelling on all the ways they hurt me. The Mr Darcy line in Pride and Prejudice applies quite well to me - "My good opinion once lost is lost forever."

    I also kind of force myself to conclude that they don't care at all. The weird thing is, the evidence very much suggests that people want to keep me in their lives, with rare exceptions. They usually "want me back" in some form, eventually. It has surprised me with a couple of people because I myself said some pretty harsh and hurtful things to them when I reached that point. It seems there is something they miss but I get to a point where I think "that's their tough luck". Almost with a bit of vindictive pleasure, but I know it's to mask my own feelings of hurt.

    In any case there is a huge amount of emotional fallout for me. It generally takes years before I can think of the person or anything related to them without at least some pain.

    I question my own behaviour and my own motives so much when I reach this point. I wonder if I am disloyal and should have approached things differently, etc. The facts ultimately convince me otherwise because I have maintained many friendships for many years and am widely viewed as loyal. In fact, I know that sometimes I have put up with too much. But every situation like this that arises, even if there aren't many, I question myself agonizingly over what I and they could have done differently.
    I bolded what I especially related to. You make many excellent points, and I want to emphasize the last one about feeling disloyal and constantly reviewing your own actions in the matter. That must be kneejerk. I do it too, even when I know I'm not the one who steered us toward a cliff.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  3. #23
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    “when one burns one's bridges, what a very nice fire it makes.” - dylan thomas


    once i've made a decision like that.
    i don't waver. it's one of the few
    times i'm actually very calm and
    collected.
    shoulders back, chin up.
    and i march on. it just happens
    very naturally. because seeing me
    out of control is something they'll
    never ever see.

    different story if i haven't cut them
    out though. i'd be visibly scowling.
    What do you do when you've been able to make the decision to cut them off but they get re-instated by someone else close to you?
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  4. #24
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    I disowned my mother. Easy peasy. I just decide that the costs of the person outweigh the benefits, and "fire" them. Never regreted it yet.
    Was your mother a very destructive and toxic person? How did you find the wherewithal to remove her without regrets or self-badgering questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I think we vastly overestimate how much it matters to people who fuck us over when we cut them off. Once you realize you were not the end of their world, it's much easier to take care of yourself and stop things before you get so emotionally invested that your body goes off when you're around them.
    Dead on. Well-said.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  5. #25
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Makes it feel that much more intense and bad, doesn't it?
    Ooh yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Is this something you were born with or something you've acquired?
    I think I learned to push my reactions down, it must have been early in childhood. These kinds of sensations came flooding back at about 17. It sounds dramatic but it feels like a part of me was fighting for itself. And it worked because I don't brush important feelings aside anymore. Much better to deal at the time they arise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    I find the loss of a friendship a great deal more devastating than any romantic one.
    That friendship in particular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Thank you so much for sharing this.
    My pleasure, treasure. :-)

  6. #26
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Was your mother a very destructive and toxic person? How did you find the wherewithal to remove her without regrets or self-badgering questions?
    It's just a matter of:

    Benefits ___ Costs

    >, <, or =

    If it's not >, by a large margin, they go bye-bye. I honestly have never had a problem cutting people out my life because of this.
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  7. #27
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I actually think the whole cost/benefit analysis thing is a very healthy way to look at it. (The funny thing is - some people will tell you this sort of reasoning sounds cold, but I've realised that those types of people are more often than not perfectly happy with being perfectly selfish, themselves! They just don't like it when you spell it out like that.)

    I'm trying to be more like that now, but it just doesn't come naturally to me - I seriously wish it did!

    Domino, and everyone else - it just sucks that these situations arise at all
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I relate to the mental anguish and powerful physical symptoms associated with situations like these. I've had times when I started to shake (teeth chattering and all) much like Violaine described out of anger and distress. I'm used to strong physical symptoms when I'm really distressed, unfortunately - I tend to suffer from nausea and fatigue and backaches but yeah, if confronted with a really agitating situation I have found myself shaking or feeling something which I assume is like road rage (almost like I could hit someone.)

    I have mixed feelings about cutting people out. I can think of maybe three times I've tried to doorslam someone. They all got back in, but all the situations are different. One of them got back in when he came back and apologised years later (albeit somewhat indirectly, but then we were able to talk about it.) He had hurt my feelings badly and I had dreams about him for years. I thought he didn't care but some stuff got back to me through the friend grapevine to indicate that he did much more than I'd thought. So we re-entered each other's lives but things had moved on and changed so much that we weren't going to be more than acquaintances. At least amicable ones, which is good. It wouldn't be more now than a once a year Facebook message or something.

    Another was a female friend I doorslammed, explaining to her in detail why I was doing it...! We were both reacting to things badly at that time. I should have told her how I'd been feeling about where our friendship was going before doing something that extreme. She kind of slowly clawed her way back in and ultimately we discussed it and things are ok again. I just need to be careful about communication pitfalls with her but otherwise things are fine.

    Another was a guy friend who'd hurt my feelings badly on several occasions and just generally shown a lot of mixed messages, lack of care and general tendency to be a user. When I tried to doorslam him he came back and apologised (actually, that happened more than once with him...) and I was so touched that I wrote it all off. However, a few months later it fell apart (sort of) when I realised he was using me for free therapy and called him on it. There was no doorslamming - in fact, I probably tried a little too hard to leave the door ajar. If anything he came closer to doorslamming me, though it was more like a mutual decision to just let things drift apart. He did ask me to his leaving party before he left the country and I went to be amicable, but I don't think there's much trust or desire to maintain things left between us.

    I didn't doorslam my ex boyfriend, as it just wasn't practical at the time because we saw too much of each other for unavoidable reasons. But now that we live in different countries the door has just kind of quietly closed. When he tried to friend me on FB a couple of years ago I didn't respond. He's not quite dead to me, but fairly close. I have no interest in ever having him in my life again and don't feel much over it. I think by the time I got through all the pain over that there was just absolutely nothing left except maybe a very faint resentment. There are a few other people, mainly in that same city/country, who I feel similarly about though they're not exes or ex-best friends. I just realised in retrospect that there was some crappy behaviour and disrespect from them, I feel no liking or respect for them and wouldn't want them around at all. Although, saying hello politely wouldn't be a problem, and if forced I'd do that with the ex too but hopefully as briefly as possible.

    I'm in another "mutually drifting apart" situation now and would prefer to keep the door closed on the person, though it wasn't a slam. I don't think maintaining them in my life would cause me anything better than pain and discomfort. I'm still having dreams about them and a certain amount of distress and preoccupation with the situation. It's hard when it feels like there's uncertainty and unfinished business, which there tends to be. I would really love to wipe my memory sometimes, especially because when someone is on my mind, everything - but everything - reminds me of them, especially anything we enjoyed together, experienced together, discussed or joked about, etc.

    Some people are toxic and you have to let them go or even slam the door. Some people it's not so much toxicity, but the emotional impact of keeping them around is not worth it. If they have behaved hideously you have every excuse to shut them out, but if it's more ambiguous (disappointed expectations, lower-level but ongoing hurtful behaviour, etc) it can be even harder in some ways. I'm wary about letting people back in though I guess a couple of times it has more or less worked out. I'm just at the point where I feel like if I have a gut feeling I shouldn't let them back in - even if they are not "bad people" - I just shouldn't. They will hurt me again, due to their insecurity and carelessness, and/or residual hurt feelings on my part.

    Also, to get over someone (especially romantically) it's almost like I HAVE to dislike and resent them. I know that's not good, but I can't keep hanging onto the good stuff, it makes it harder. So there tends to be a long period of resentment and hurt and then - just nothing, which is blessed relief. But it obviously kills any friendship/relationship. If it's someone I was in love with or had strong feelings for I sort of go from the extreme of idealizing them and caring almost too much, to seeing everything they did wrong and dwelling on all the ways they hurt me. The Mr Darcy line in Pride and Prejudice applies quite well to me - "My good opinion once lost is lost forever."

    I also kind of force myself to conclude that they don't care at all. The weird thing is, the evidence very much suggests that people want to keep me in their lives, with rare exceptions. They usually "want me back" in some form, eventually. It has surprised me with a couple of people because I myself said some pretty harsh and hurtful things to them when I reached that point. It seems there is something they miss but I get to a point where I think "that's their tough luck". Almost with a bit of vindictive pleasure, but I know it's to mask my own feelings of hurt.

    In any case there is a huge amount of emotional fallout for me. It generally takes years before I can think of the person or anything related to them without at least some pain.

    I question my own behaviour and my own motives so much when I reach this point. I wonder if I am disloyal and should have approached things differently, etc. The facts ultimately convince me otherwise because I have maintained many friendships for many years and am widely viewed as loyal. In fact, I know that sometimes I have put up with too much. But every situation like this that arises, even if there aren't many, I question myself agonizingly over what I and they could have done differently.

    Woah Silk I totally resonate with you. The only difference being I don't let the people back in my life even years later. I am a T-totaler kind of in the way you said that the stage after the long time of hurt is feeling nothing. Maybe how when a guy sleeps with a girl in a one night stand he feels nothing after sex? Not in a bad way or anything he can control; it just is.

    Thanks all for the thread. It is different to read this thread happy and healthy rather than reading similar threads a few years ago in the middle of the "hurt" or my first big doomslam so to speak. Happy life, fresh eyes and wisdom now. Woo
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