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  1. #11
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    wut
    Absolutely. Lot's of things must be questioned, especially the idea of the reality vs perception thought upon each individual basis. When we fall to continuous assumption based on the limited ability of one's conscious mental processes, we can fall to the unfortunate state of believing the possible fallacies of the perception we base upon reality.

    I suppose it's best learnt through the realisations of certain realisations of what we conjure upon the visions of the things we base as a possible existences.

  2. #12
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    Absolutely. Lot's of things must be questioned, especially the idea of the reality vs perception thought upon each individual basis. When we fall to continuous assumption based on the limited ability of one's conscious mental processes, we can fall to the unfortunate state of believing the possible fallacies of the perception we base upon reality.

    I suppose it's best learnt through the realisations of certain realisations of what we conjure upon the visions of the things we base as a possible existences.
    So, what? Objective understanding is limited. Therefore, we shouldn't even try? Or at least, discuss our perceptions with others to gain a hunch as to whether the hold the same opinion or not? Am I just a figment of your imagination, and that's why you don't care to discuss my post about toxicity? You realize you're talking with me about the objective nature of subjectivism and relativism, I hope. You're trying to sway me just as anyone else who would pump out their own lines of reasoning. It's not like I'm shoving anything down your throat. It should be evident that I'm conveying my own opinion on the issue, and if you're feeling like I'm forcing you to gobble it up, then you're wrong. It should be self-evident to you that you can either take it or leave it.

    Regardless, I don't see how this particular conversation relates to the original discussion, then again I wonder if you're trying to diffuse it.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Meek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    If one's perceptions are toxic, then they are toxic. The first statement is then not only invalidated, but also tripe idealism.
    Which also means you are invalidating the first statement that I wholly agree with, by using a 50 cent word on idealism to make idealism look cheap and distasteful and meaningless, when in fact it's actually very meaningful to a lot of people. Which means that your statement isn't true for everyone and your view is obviously clouded by something dimmer in color. Sorry if your view on the world is so damp but mine is not because I have my idealism and my perception may not be rose colored but it sure is colored enough to not project like you have and if I do project, I listen to observe other views and ask questions.

    It would be wiser of you to not assume anything about me in the future, or really any idealist. Wisdom would suit you better than this arm chair psychology.

    Having a toxic perception is usually a result of another person causing them to have one. For every action, there is a reaction.
    I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.-
    Albert Einstein

  4. #14
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    So, what? Objective understanding is limited. Therefore, we shouldn't even try? Or at least, discuss our perceptions with others to gain a hunch as to whether the hold the same opinion or not? Am I just a figment of your imagination, and that's why you don't care to discuss my post about toxicity? You realize you're talking with me about the objective nature of subjectivism and relativism, I hope. You're trying to sway me just as anyone else who would pump out their own lines of reasoning. It's not like I'm shoving anything down your throat. It should be evident that I'm conveying my own opinion on the issue, and if you're feeling like I'm forcing you to gobble it up, then you're wrong. It should be self-evident to you that you can either take it or leave it.

    Regardless, I don't see how this particular conversation relates to the original discussion, then again I wonder if you're trying to diffuse it.
    Relax ginkgo. I do not mind seeing things the way you argued but that in itself will have a problem in that you have stated that as long as just one person perceives someone else as toxic, the person perceived would be toxic. If I go by this than would someone who perceives someone as toxic and another person who perceives that same person as anti-toxic mean that the person is toxic and anti-toxic at the same time? The paradox.


    Anyways, you are correct, the current conversation seems to have been moved upon certain tangents. Best move on I suppose.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meek View Post
    "There are no toxic people. Just toxic ways of seeing them"
    Was he toxic?


  6. #16
    Senior Member Meek's Avatar
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    Charles manson I believe is an Enfp gone wrong in the eyes of society. I believe that society actually did effect him because of his upbringing so when he was little, he wasn't toxic but committing murder would make him a toxic person. I also don't respect him because he doesn't respect women so yes, he IS toxic but he wasn't growing up imo, just had a shitty child hood.
    I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.-
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  7. #17
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    As an Fe user it's very very hard to listen to yourself and you'll only really do it once things have gotten really bad, and once you do, then you feel bad about it afterwards. It sucks donkey cakes.

  8. #18
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    Relax ginkgo. I do not mind seeing things the way you argued but that in itself will have a problem in that you have stated that as long as just one person perceives someone else as toxic, the person perceived would be toxic. If I go by this than would someone who perceives someone as toxic and another person who perceives that same person as anti-toxic mean that the person is toxic and anti-toxic at the same time? The paradox.


    Anyways, you are correct, the current conversation seems to have been moved upon certain tangents. Best move on I suppose.
    Sure. Everyone's a mixed bag. Cures and diseases, we all are.

  9. #19
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meek View Post
    Which also means you are invalidating the first statement that I wholly agree with, by using a 50 cent word on idealism to make idealism look cheap and distasteful and meaningless, when in fact it's actually very meaningful to a lot of people. Which means that your statement isn't true for everyone and your view is obviously clouded by something dimmer in color. Sorry if your view on the world is so damp but mine is not because I have my idealism and my perception may not be rose colored but it sure is colored enough to not project like you have and if I do project, I listen to observe other views and ask questions.

    It would be wiser of you to not assume anything about me in the future, or really any idealist. Wisdom would suit you better than this arm chair psychology.

    Having a toxic perception is usually a result of another person causing them to have one. For every action, there is a reaction.
    It's an assumption that I'm assuming anything about you. I am talking about your post. It's strange that your analyzing my worldview with one face, and with the other telling me that I ought not to make arm chair assumptions. I'm not. I'm analyzing your post. For all I know, your post may not have reflected your actual opinions.

    However, you did ask what the reader thought about the quote and I gave my opinion.

    If a person has a toxic perception, that is part of who the perciever is. The mold grows; the person is infected; it is self-inflicted. Hating Charles Manson devours a person's soul with their own hatred. Even if Charles Manson is objectively toxic, it's not necessarily his responsibility how others perceive him. However, his hideous behavior is. Does he control your mind?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Meek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    It's an assumption that I'm assuming anything about you. I am talking about your post. It's strange that your analyzing my worldview with one face, and with the other telling me that I ought not to make arm chair assumptions. I'm not. I'm analyzing your post. For all I know, your post may not have reflected your actual opinions.

    However, you did ask what the reader thought about the quote and I gave my opinion.

    If a person has a toxic perception, that is part of who the perciever is. The mold grows; the person is infected; it is self-inflicted. Hating Charles Manson devours a person's soul with their own hatred. Even if Charles Manson is objectively toxic, it's not necessarily his responsibility how others perceive him. However, his hideous behavior is. Does he control your mind?
    Wondering if you're assuming that I hate CM when I never said I do. In some aspects I respect him, in some I don't. Why are you asking me if he controls my mind when you clearly know the answer. What a derpy question, lol. :P
    I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.-
    Albert Einstein

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