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  1. #1
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    Default Is Fe fake or manipulative?

    I think it can be, every time I see someone with strong Fe I wonder why they are trying to be so nice. Furthermore they are always so pushy in promoting their Fe in others.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    There is a distinction to be made here - "is" vs. "can be". Healthy Fe is devoted and selfless. Unhealthy Fe, OTOH, is a real trap:

    * They offer to do everything for you;
    * If you don't accept, you are being dismissive and cold-hearted, rejecting their earnest expressions of love;
    * If you do accept, you are in their debt for all eternity and any disagreement with them is tantamount to selfish betrayal.

    I'm talking about Fe-doms here... Dunno how it manifests unhealthily in IxFJs.

    Point is, Fe isn't inherently manipulative and leech-like, just like Fi isn't inherently selfish or mercurial.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I think it can be, every time I see someone with strong Fe I wonder why they are trying to be so nice. Furthermore they are always so pushy in promoting their Fe in others.
    Fake? No.

    Manipulative? It can be. Depends how it is used.

    EDIT: As Viridian described.

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    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    fake: often, but a lot of the time it just looks fake
    manipulative: usually
    guilt trippy: frequently
    mail mailing: less frequently (more in NFJs, it's also an Ni thing)
    invasive: almost always
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    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    it can be.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #6
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    It's not fake, but it is almost always going to look it if it's tuned into. It can be like a switch that is flipped in an instant, which is why it looks fake and can come out like a string of generic response, but it's typically a genuine reaction that isn't forced.
    Manipulative? Yes, but for a variety of reasons and on many different levels. It can be for the benefit of the manipulator or the benefit of the manipulated. If I am manipulating someone on a normal level, it is going to tend to be for the betterment of themselves, opposed to something that I can gain from it. Actually, even my high levels of manipulation tend to be for the betterment of the other person, but they can be very rough tactics that seem selfish in purpose. Sometimes that is because people need an external enemy that is pinpointing the enemy that is themselves. Sometimes it begets more understanding and progress.
    Eh I'm in energy-drink-hangover mode, so will wait before more thought occurs.
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    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    It's not fake, but it is almost always going to look it if it's tuned into. It can be like a switch that is flipped in an instant, which is why it looks fake and can come out like a string of generic response, but it's typically a genuine reaction that isn't forced.
    Manipulative? Yes, but for a variety of reasons and on many different levels. It can be for the benefit of the manipulator or the benefit of the manipulated. If I am manipulating someone on a normal level, it is going to tend to be for the betterment of themselves, opposed to something that I can gain from it. Actually, even my high levels of manipulation tend to be for the betterment of the other person, but they can be very rough tactics that seem selfish in purpose. Sometimes that is because people need an external enemy that is pinpointing the enemy that is themselves. Sometimes it begets more understanding and progress.
    Eh I'm in energy-drink-hangover mode, so will wait before more thought occurs.

    when I said Fe is manipulative and intrusive, this is what I meant.
    Edit: all manipulative people say this by the way, whether they're controlling parents, intrusive authority figures or dictators
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  8. #8
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    when I said Fe is manipulative and intrusive, this is what I meant.
    Edit: all manipulative people say this by the way, whether they're controlling parents, intrusive authority figures or dictators
    I don't think they admit to actually manipulating. They'll leave that word so far out of the equation, but definitely rock the sentiment of externalizing it.
    I've definitely had a lot of discussions about it, and how it can come across to types that don't like feeling as if they are being told what to do. I see a lot of ENFJs saying "This is your point A.. and this is your point B.. and this is what you should do to get there." Said others will reject it, do the round-about until it's either ruined or until the 'point a point b' advice actually resonates as if they'd come up with it on their own. That sounds.. hmm.. but it's more of a self-assessing fact-checker system and I've seen it a lot in INFPs that I've dealt with. They don't feel comfortable until they have weighed out all of the options, even if they end up at the option I started them with. It's definitely thorough, at least.
    ESFJs I've witnessed tend to play off their manipulation off as being good for the manipulated, but I always see it being self-benefiting and/or too much of tradition, not enough individual. While they may be dead on in the sense of traditional means to get from point A to point B, it just seems like it is so rarely in tune enough. Course, that is from my ENFJ perspective of 'different people, different solutions'. They just tend to make my skin crawl a lot.
    INFJ Fe can turn parental, but it also means well. I've never found it to come across as self-benefiting. It's just heavy in concern and questioning in a number of cases. I don't even have a strong urge to call it manipulative, but it does seem to strike an 'unintentionally swaying' chord.
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  9. #9
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    I don't think they admit to actually manipulating. They'll leave that word so far out of the equation, but definitely rock the sentiment of externalizing it.
    I've definitely had a lot of discussions about it, and how it can come across to types that don't like feeling as if they are being told what to do. I see a lot of ENFJs saying "This is your point A.. and this is your point B.. and this is what you should do to get there." Said others will reject it, do the round-about until it's either ruined or until the 'point a point b' advice actually resonates as if they'd come up with it on their own. That sounds.. hmm.. but it's more of a self-assessing fact-checker system and I've seen it a lot in INFPs that I've dealt with. They don't feel comfortable until they have weighed out all of the options, even if they end up at the option I started them with. It's definitely thorough, at least.
    ESFJs I've witnessed tend to play off their manipulation off as being good for the manipulated, but I always see it being self-benefiting and/or too much of tradition, not enough individual. While they may be dead on in the sense of traditional means to get from point A to point B, it just seems like it is so rarely in tune enough. Course, that is from my ENFJ perspective of 'different people, different solutions'. They just tend to make my skin crawl a lot.
    INFJ Fe can turn parental, but it also means well. I've never found it to come across as self-benefiting. It's just heavy in concern and questioning in a number of cases. I don't even have a strong urge to call it manipulative, but it does seem to strike an 'unintentionally swaying' chord.
    self benefit is not the issue. manipulation for self benefit is no worse than manipulation "for their own good"
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #10
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    These threads crack me up.

    Yes, dom-Fe CAN be manipulative, in ways unique to Fe, just as dom-Si CAN be manipulative, just as dom-Fi CAN be manipulative, and dom-Ne.... and so on.

    *Every person on this planet* no matter what their type can be deemed by others as manipulative. Half the time the so-called Manipulator might be very conscious of what he/she's doing, so know they're trying to bring about a certain situation/result, and the other half of the time they might not be doing anything of the sort, and they're merely labeled that way because the other person operates differently and therefore reads the 'manipulators' actions through their own lens, and misjudge intent.
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