[Fe] Is Fe fake or manipulative?

[INTPness]

The fake part isn't Fe, though. Fe is just 'being nice'. The fact that it doesn't mesh with your internal experience doesn't make it fake. What's fake is that you don't actually want to be nice. So you're being dishonest with yourself by using Fe when you really want to be using Ti and pointing out everything that's wrong with what they did. That's not an attribute of the function itself, it's a problem with how you are resolving which function to use.

Are you implying that you've never interacted with someone that you very much dislike and "been nice" even though you didn't want to be nice at that moment? In other words, you "put on a nice face" for the evening and then when you got home you went, "Boy am I glad to be done with that person!"

Or, a boss that you didn't particularly care for demanded that you do something you didn't want to do and you went "Oh, okay. No problem. Hee hee."

You've never done those things? Or things like that?

I guess I see your point. Fe is simply the "mechanism" we use to "be nice", so maybe it's not the Fe in and of itself that is fake - instead it's something in the person that causes them to "employ the Fe mechanism". Either way, when a person employs such strategies, the person themselves is being fake to some degree.

And, yeah, I'd like to know. Am I the only one who has done those sort of things on occasion? Nobody else does that stuff from time to time??????? Hello? Anyone?

 

[INTPness]

The way I see it Fe dom users are often good at exaggerating their Fe while someone who is more Ti dom may have alot of trouble doing that. Fe isn't faked in the Fe user when that person is legitimate and is showing their "Fe" in a healthy manner. However If the Fe dom user is having a bad day or has ulterior motives they defiantly have that ability to use their Fe in a "fake" manner. This is why Fe users can come across as "fake" because they are quite good at using their Fe even for negative reasons.

This is a great point. As a Ti-dom, I have an internal conflict when I "fake the funk" with Fe. I'm doing it, and I know I'm doing it, and I don't like it. Ti says to me, "Why are you being so fake right now? Why do you even do that? I thought you were better than that?!"

So, yeah, it could be a Ti-Fe internal battle that is specific to INP's.

 

[Anew Leaf]

The way I see it Fe dom users are often good at exaggerating their Fe while someone who is more Ti dom may have alot of trouble doing that. Fe isn't faked in the Fe user when that person is legitimate and is showing their "Fe" in a healthy manner. However If the Fe dom user is having a bad day or has ulterior motives they defiantly have that ability to use their Fe in a "fake" manner. This is why Fe users can come across as "fake" because they are quite good at using their Fe even for negative reasons.

Can you please define "fake" for the audience? There seems to be a misunderstanding in that "fake" in these contexts means "it is as real as the Easter Bunny is" versus "not genuine.

 

[jixmixfix]

Can you please define "fake" for the audience? There seems to be a misunderstanding in that "fake" in these contexts means "it is as real as the Easter Bunny is" versus "not genuine.

All I'm saying is that an Fe dom user has that ability to not be genuine about their Fe, and can use that ability alot easier than other types. Fe isn't fake in it's purest form but the user has the ability more than other MBTI types to use it in a negative context.

 

[onemoretime]

Are you implying that you've never interacted with someone that you very much dislike and "been nice" even though you didn't want to be nice at that moment? In other words, you "put on a nice face" for the evening and then when you got home you went, "Boy am I glad to be done with that person!"

Or, a boss that you didn't particularly care for demanded that you do something you didn't want to do and you went "Oh, okay. No problem. Hee hee."

You've never done those things? Or things like that?

I guess I see your point. Fe is simply the "mechanism" we use to "be nice", so maybe it's not the Fe in and of itself that is fake - instead it's something in the person that causes them to "employ the Fe mechanism". Either way, when a person employs such strategies, the person themselves is being fake to some degree.

No, they're not. They truly feel that expressing a negative emotion at that time would not be worth the trouble.

 

[amazingdatagirl]

Do you know the type metaphor of the Dominant as the captain at the helm of a ship, the Auxiliary as the crew, the Tertiary as the sailor watching the captain from the railing but also watching the Shadow, who is in a small boat tied to the large vessel and angrily trying to row in the opposite direction, waiting for the captain to lose focus?

Well Captain, if you would leave me the hell alone then I wouldn't be so grouchy would I? JK - I feel like I have spent my whole life rowing against the tide.

You only start to see inconsistencies when you break down the semantic content of it and notice that they're basically saying the opposite thing in both cases - that's a Ti process.

Inferior Fe is a bitch. I feel a certain obligation to play along with the established order but sometimes it's just easier to lie and escape the pressure of implicit social rules. Somebody, please explain to me how a "rule" can be implicit. Doesn't that violate a fundamental principal of rule making? ** sorry, Ti rant **

Just like I-Pness, I confess to my own Fe fakey, smiley hypocrisy at times.

 

[INTPness]

All I'm saying is that an Fe dom user has that ability to not be genuine about their Fe, and can use that ability alot easier than other types. Fe isn't fake in it's purest form but the user has the ability more than other MBTI types to use it in a negative context.

This x 1,000,000. That's it in a nutshell. The ability is there to be fake and *sometimes* that ability is employed. Think: big interview for that awesome new job. We Fe users act SOOOOO sweet in those interviews. "Oh Betty, let's hire him...isn't he just the sweetest little guy you've ever seen?"

 

[cascadeco]

All I'm saying is that an Fe dom user has that ability to not be genuine about their Fe, and can use that ability alot easier than other types. Fe isn't fake in it's purest form but the user has the ability more than other MBTI types to use it in a negative context.

If you're simply saying that dom-Fe-ers will have the ability to use Fe more negatively than any of the other types who use (or don't use) Fe, I might buy it, as long as you also add that dom-Ne-ers will have the ability to use Ne more negatively than any of the other types, and dom-Ti-ers will have the ability....... and so on. But even then... Fe could be the means of manipulation from any of the types, so an ESTP could be much more manipulative with Fe than a dom-Fe-er. Ok so maybe I don't buy this.

There's nothing inherently more manipulative/destined-to-go-sour about Fe than any of the other functions, though.

 

[INTPness]

No, they're not. They truly feel that expressing a negative emotion at that time would not be worth the trouble.

Wouldn't be worth the trouble to express it - but they still feel it!!! They're (we're) covering up what they really feel.

 

[Viridian]

Boy, this thread got loooooong overnight...

P.S. "they" is not grammatically correct when I am speaking about a Fe user and not Fe users.

Technically, "they" is an acceptable gender-neutral single-person pronoun, I believe. /pedant

I declare this thread fake.

YOU ARE ALL PHONIES!

Oh God. Please don't make this Fi vs. Fe. Please please please.

Kumbaya

Peace, love and understanding.

Lalala.

QFT.

You knew it was coming, Gingko. We all did.

Fe is a very complicated issue, I think. It has four manifestations, two as dominant functions and two as auxiliary functions. We need to carefully assess how Fe works as a dominant for ENFJs and ESFJs, how Fe operates as an auxiliary for INFJs and ISFJs.

Mmmm-hmmm. The roles matter quite a lot, methinks.

Can we drop the word "fake"? Nothing is fake in typology. Fake, as in not having meaning or reality. The extreme E..FJs (with no developed auxiliary) are truly acting in the reality of their convictions.

Thank you, sir.

 

[INTPness]

If you're simply saying that dom-Fe-ers will have the ability to use Fe more negatively than any of the other types who use (or don't use) Fe, I might buy it, as long as you also add that dom-Ne-ers will have the ability to use Ne more negatively than any of the other types, and dom-Ti-ers will have the ability....... and so on.

There's nothing inherently more manipulative/destined-to-go-sour about Fe than any of the other functions, though.

Each type has the ability to use their strengths for negative. Not only Fe.

 

[Resonance]

Are you implying that you've never interacted with someone that you very much dislike and "been nice" even though you didn't want to be nice at that moment? In other words, you "put on a nice face" for the evening and then when you got home you went, "Boy am I glad to be done with that person!"

Not exactly, because of the bolded. If I'm being nice to someone, it's because I want to. That doesn't mean I like them. It just means I want to keep things smooth for whatever reason. That's what Fe is for. I might also want to criticize them and tell them off (Ti), but in the balance, Fe wins. Ti will work behind the scenes and seize opportunities to undermine them or to get away quickly.

Or, a boss that you didn't particularly care for demanded that you do something you didn't want to do and you went "Oh, okay. No problem. Hee hee."

You've never done those things? Or things like that?

I guess I see your point. Fe is simply the "mechanism" we use to "be nice", so maybe it's not the Fe in and of itself that is fake - instead it's something in the person that causes them to "employ the Fe mechanism". Either way, when a person employs such strategies, the person themselves is being fake to some degree.

Good, this is a step in the right direction, but it still isn't fake because the desire for harmony is real. You might have conflicting desires - the desire to tell someone off vs. the desire to keep the peace - but that doesn't mean it's 'fake' if you prioritize one of them over the other. It might be unfulfilling to you, maybe? For me, it isn't. I get a real kick out of a situation when I could have lost my cool but managed to stay on top of things instead.

 

[cascadeco]

Each type has the ability to use their strengths for negative. Not only Fe.

Right. So what exactly is the point of this whole thread?

 

[Resonance]

Inferior Fe is a bitch. I feel a certain obligation to play along with the established order but sometimes it's just easier to lie and escape the pressure of implicit social rules. Somebody, please explain to me how a "rule" can be implicit. Doesn't that violate a fundamental principal of rule making? ** sorry, Ti rant **

Not exactly. Rules arise from our brains' natural process of detecting patterns in antecedent/behaviour/consequence relationships. Formalizing them does require certain principles, but there's the organic concept as well as the formal one.

 

[jixmixfix]

What is it 'faking'? Fe isn't about what's happening internally. If I make a violin that looks like a Stradivarius, is it a 'fake violin'? No, it still works like a violin and can play very beautiful music. Is it a 'fake Stradivarius'? Only if I put a label on it or tell people that it's a real one.

Fe's not faking anything, even when it's not representing your internal state, because it's not meant to.

You just said that Fe isn't internal? so how can something external be real if it doesn't represent someones internal state?

 

[Glycerine]

hahaha right on, cascadeco. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Resonance]

You just said that Fe isn't internal? so how can something external be real if it doesn't represent someones internal state?

um? I'm not sure what you're asking. This is the basic distinction of introverted/extroverted functions. Introverted = internal state (subjective), extroverted = external state (objective).

 

[INTPness]

Right. So what exactly is the point of this whole thread?

To discuss Fe. We could just as easily start a thread on the negatives of Ne or Te or Ti, or any of the other functions. I'll leave that to you if you'd like to do that. I see nothing wrong in discussing and learning about Fe. It's through discussion that we learn. That is the point of all of these threads and this entire forum, I would assume.

 

[onemoretime]

Wouldn't be worth the trouble to express it - but they still feel it!!! They're (we're) covering up what they really feel.

No, they're feeling both - the internal emotion, and the desire to maintain harmony and order. For them, the feeling of desire to maintain harmony and order is more important than the particular internal emotion. They're being true to themselves.

 

[jixmixfix]

No, they're feeling both - the internal emotion, and the desire to maintain harmony and order. For them, the feeling of desire to maintain harmony and order is more important than the particular internal emotion. They're being true to themselves.

You can also look at it in the sense that they are not being true to themselves because they are trying to create harmony and order in others and not themselves.