[Fe] Is Fe fake or manipulative?

[skylights]

well there's not really much to talk about then, is there? you think Fe doms acting like Fe doms are being fake, and you don't agree with any of our explanations for why that's actually genuine behavior on their part. keep your viewpoint, if it pleases you. it's not going to help answer your questions though.

every time I see someone with strong Fe I wonder why they are trying to be so nice.

because it benefits them. the creation of external harmony improves their environment.

Furthermore they are always so pushy in promoting their Fe in others.

short answer: because that's what Je functions do.
long answer: because Fe works by using environmental resources to establish the best-functioning system it can based on F-style prioritization. Fe works with others to create a positive interpersonal environment. it's not about being pushy, it's about trying to get everyone on the same (positive) page. it just comes off as pushy when you have other priorities, personally, and they conflict with the priorities the Fe dom is attempting to establish. the same holds true for Te.

 

[Ginkgo]

It is kind of fake. So is Fe.

Ti is thinking. Te is demonstration of thinking.
Fi is feeling. Fe is demonstration of feeling.

Dichotomy: Passive/Active.

Kind of fake.

It would be hard to demonstrate Thinking without actually Thinking. There must be a degree of subjective judgement.

Further, the thoughts organized by Ti are demonstrable in communication, at the very least. Albeit, they are local to the communicator. An act of demonstrative Fi or Ti neglects the subjective element.

 

[Ginkgo]

mail mailing: less frequently (more in NFJs, it's also an Ni thing)

What's "mail mailing"?

 

[onemoretime]

I've seen it many times.

You've seen something, but how can you say that you've seen what's going on inside someone's head? How do you know this?

 

[Haven]

How do you judge what Fe is real and what is fake? or is it all fake? Then what is fake? If I'm feeling especially pissed off one day and I decide not to take it out on the nearest humanoid, does that mean I'm fake? If your external mood does not perfectly match your internal feelings, does that mean you are fake? If you believe in keeping your enemies close, does that make you fake? What if you submit a resume to an employer that mildly exaggerates your talents? I'm just trying to figure out what this whole fake business is about.

Where did this notion of "fake" and "real" when describing a person come from, anyway?

When I smile, it can mean a lot of things, but generally it is to be polite and friendly. Is that fake? Who gets to decide if this is or is not fake?

 

[onemoretime]

It is kind of fake. So is Fe.

Ti is thinking. Te is demonstration of thinking.
Fi is feeling. Fe is demonstration of feeling.

Dichotomy: Passive/Active.

Eh, not quite.

Ti: adherence to internalized structure. Te: adherence to external structure
Fi: adherence to internalized values. Fe: adherence to external values

 

[A window to the soul]

How do you judge what Fe is real and what is fake? or is it all fake? Then what is fake? If I'm feeling especially pissed off one day and I decide not to take it out on the nearest humanoid, does that mean I'm fake? If your external mood does not perfectly match your internal feelings, does that mean you are fake? If you believe in keeping your enemies close, does that make you fake? What if you submit a resume to an employer that mildly exaggerates your talents? I'm just trying to figure out what this whole fake business is about.

Where did this notion of "fake" and "real" when describing a person come from, anyway?

When I smile, it can mean a lot of things, but generally it is to be polite and friendly. Is that fake? Who gets to decide if this is or is not fake?

The notion is nonsense. Isn't Fe doing things for the overall well being of the group? Because when you win I win, and if you go, I go, we go. Like this...

"Where do you think you're going? Nobody's leaving. Nobody's walking out on this fun, old-fashioned family Christmas. No, no. We're all in this together. This is a full-blown, four-alarm holiday emergency here. We're gonna press on, and we're gonna have the hap, hap, happiest Christmas since Bing Crosby tap-danced with Danny fucking Kaye. And when Santa squeezes his fat white ass down that chimney tonight, he's gonna find the jolliest bunch of assholes this side of the nuthouse." - Clark

As you can see, there's nothing fake about it. Smiling, showmanship, a positive attitude, all help to sustain the morale. When the group values are breached, things go downhill fast.

Eh, not quite.

Ti: adherence to internalized structure. Te: adherence to external structure
Fi: adherence to internalized values. Fe: adherence to external values

What happens when everyone in the group is Fi-dom?

 

[onemoretime]

What happens when everyone in the group is Fi-dom?

You'd have to ask them.

 

[Elfboy]

What's "mail mailing"?

lol I meant to say "black mailing"

 

[A window to the soul]

You'd have to ask them.

The risks of a catastrophic nuclear meltdown seem very high.

 

[Haven]

The notion is nonsense. Isn't Fe doing things for the overall well being of the group? Because when you win I win, and if you go, I go, we go.

In a sense yea it has to do with the group and how people behave towards each other, as well as what is acceptable. Being polite or rude to one person in a group has consequences for the rest of the group if they take notice. Being especially friendly towards one person sends good vibes out to everyone else, who might follow suit. Fe puts everyone on the same wavelength so communication can be smooth and without misunderstandings, like a well choreographed dance.

 

[Ginkgo]

How do you judge what Fe is real and what is fake? or is it all fake? Then what is fake? If I'm feeling especially pissed off one day and I decide not to take it out on the nearest humanoid, does that mean I'm fake? If your external mood does not perfectly match your internal feelings, does that mean you are fake? If you believe in keeping your enemies close, does that make you fake? What if you submit a resume to an employer that mildly exaggerates your talents? I'm just trying to figure out what this whole fake business is about.

Where did this notion of "fake" and "real" when describing a person come from, anyway?

When I smile, it can mean a lot of things, but generally it is to be polite and friendly. Is that fake? Who gets to decide if this is or is not fake?

If you ask me, fake is when it feels like you're being sold something; in an ideal situation, I would want to inspect the product for what it actually is and not what someone is pandering to me with. Presentation has quite a bit to do with it. Trying to impose upon you, expecting you to have a certain taste without even knowing you and using that advantageously is fake behavior. Trying to sell something through repetition, like nagging or just plain redundancy to wear your emotional barriers down is fake. Helping you in a way that seems born from altruism with ulterior motives is fake. Beating around the bush is fake. Passive aggression is fake.

 

[Elfboy]

In a sense yea it has to do with the group and how people behave towards each other, as well as what is acceptable. Being polite or rude to one person in a group has consequences for the rest of the group if they take notice. Being especially friendly towards one person sends good vibes out to everyone else, who might follow suit. Fe puts everyone on the same wavelength so communication can be smooth and without misunderstandings, like a well choreographed dance.

attempting to put people on the same wavelength when they don't want to be is manipulation and mindless collectivism. this is why so many FJs are manipulative

 

[Ginkgo]

WWF: Fake. Panders to the crowd. Intentionally makes a spectacle. Glorifies drama.
UFC: Real. Doesn't pander to a crowd; crowd is drawn to it through personal taste. Spectacle is raw. No holding back. Very little drama, just honest competition.

 

[A window to the soul]

In a sense yea it has to do with the group and how people behave towards each other, as well as what is acceptable. Being polite or rude to one person in a group has consequences for the rest of the group if they take notice. Being especially friendly towards one person sends good vibes out to everyone else, who might follow suit. Fe puts everyone on the same wavelength so communication can be smooth and without misunderstandings, like a well choreographed dance.

I like what I'm hearing. It's contageous, advantageous... Fe is win-win!

 

[Elfboy]

WWF: Fake. Panders to the crowd. Intentionally makes a spectacle. Glorifies drama.
UFC: Real. Doesn't pander to a crowd; crowd is drawn to it through personal taste. Spectacle is raw. No holding back. Very little drama, just honest competition.

I agree with this except for the drama part. drama is real if you make it real

 

[Ginkgo]

I agree with this except for the drama part. drama is real if you make it real

True.

 

[Ginkgo]

You'd have to ask them.

If I was in a group of a bunch of myself's, we would probably start to laugh hysterically. Other than that, I can't speak much for them. They might try to kill me to establish themselves as the AUTHENTIC one.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

attempting to put people on the same wavelength when they don't want to be is manipulation and mindless collectivism. this is why so many FJs are manipulative

Manipulative is such a strong word based on your overtly-generalized statement. I would rather prefer "A need to convince" others in promoting social harmony.

I thought Ne also shares the similar task as Fe.

 

[Elfboy]

Manipulative is such a strong word based on your overtly-generalized statement. I would rather prefer "A need to convince" others in promoting social harmony.

I thought Ne also shares the similar task as Fe.

that's just a nicer way to say manipulation. framing it differently does not make it not manipulation. sugar coated poison is still poison
Ne and Fe are not alike at all