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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    For that matter, can Fi be manipulative? I kinda wonder...
    I'm usually not trying to manipulate anyone, I'm usually just being myself, and I get annoyed with people who think I'm manipulative just because I'm nice or because I'm emotional.

    However, pseudo-Fe is entirely manipulative, as the Fi user has an Fi motive to use Te strategically to achieve ends.

  2. #32
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Pseudo-Fe is too exhausting to use all of the time, as an Fi user it would piss you off and make you feel bad to use it too much, because you'd feel inauthentic and want to just snap and say what's really on your mind, because as an Fi user generally you want to "speak your truth" more than you want to keep the peace.

    But pseudo-Fe is generally employed in very specific situations or in short intervals for the tactic of getting people to leave you the hell alone.

    If you REALLY value harmony over saying exactly what's on your mind, then that's real Fe.

    It's about motive. It's motive, motive, motive....attitude, the underlying core reasoning for your ethical behavior.
    Valuing harmony can also mean saying what is directly on your mind. Like "cleaning the air."

    But yes, motive is a reason.

    And yes what I was trying to get at is that all types can be manipulative.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    These threads crack me up.

    Yes, dom-Fe CAN be manipulative, in ways unique to Fe, just as dom-Si CAN be manipulative, just as dom-Fi CAN be manipulative, and dom-Ne.... and so on.

    *Every person on this planet* no matter what their type can be deemed by others as manipulative. Half the time the so-called Manipulator might be very conscious of what he/she's doing, so know they're trying to bring about a certain situation/result, and the other half of the time they might not be doing anything of the sort, and they're merely labeled that way because the other person operates differently and therefore reads the 'manipulators' actions through their own lens, and misjudge intent.
    Haha, I agree. My INTJ ex was the king of manipulation. He loved pulling everyone's strings like they were puppets.

    People can manipulate each other through charm, emotions, cold logic, and so on and so forth... The key is to see the strings and move out of the way.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Rave View Post
    Valuing harmony can also mean saying what is directly on your mind. Like "cleaning the air."

    But yes, motive is a reason.
    It's all about attitude, functions are attitudes, and Fi can want harmony as well, it's not like Fi by it's very nature seeks dischord or something, not at all.

    It's just that Fi is much more concerned with their internal feeling of what is right and true, even if that means being disruptive. It's not like seeking disruption, but not minding if you cause it if it promotes what the Fi user sees as right or true.

    Authenticity is seen as paramount, even though Fi users may also like harmony.

    For Fe users it seems that harmony and connection are paramount, even though they may also like authenticity.

  5. #35
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I think often the person has genuine motive but the means can appear fake & manipulative much more so than is common to other types (where manipulation is likely a conscious motive). The desire for harmony & consensus can cause a shift in their expressions that read as phony or manipulative to others, but they are unaware of it themselves.


    A few comments from Jung (w/ some editing, for the sake of brevity):
    Fe as a function
    - [Fe] has freed itself as fully as possible from the subjective factor, and has, instead, become wholly subordinated to the influence of the object.
    - May feel constrained, for instance, to use the predicate 'beautiful' or 'good', not...from my own subjective feeling, but because it is fitting and politic so to do
    - ...in no way a simulation or a lie - it is merely an act of accommodation
    - as soon as the object gains an exaggerated influence...[Fe] draws the personality too much into the object.... [and] the personal character of the feeling, which constitutes its principal charm, is lost.
    - Feeling then....betrays a secret aim, or at least arouses the suspicion of it in an impartial observer. No longer does it make.... impression.... of genuine feeling; instead, one scents a pose or affectation, although the egocentric motive may be entirely unconscious [to the Fe person himself].
    - Such overstressed, extraverted feeling certainly fulfills aesthetic expectations, but no longer does it speak to the heart
    - Should this process go further.... feeling has entirely forfeited its original human warmth, it gives an impression of pose, inconstancy, unreliability, and in the worst cases, appears definitely hysterical.

    The Fe Type
    - Such an assimilation of subject to object then occurs as almost completely to engulf the subject of feeling. Feeling loses its personal character...
    - the personality inevitably becomes dissipated ... Apparently, he is "this" one moment, and something completely different the next - apparently, I repeat, for in reality such a manifold personality is altogether impossible [the person doesn't necessarily change internally]
    - The basis of the ego always remains identical with itself, and, therefore, appears definitely opposed to the changing states of feeling. Accordingly the observer senses the display of feeling not as a personal expression of the [Fe type], [not] as an alteration of his ego, a mood.... Corresponding with the degree of dissociation between the ego and the momentary state of feeling, signs of disunion with the self will become more or less evident
    - This reveals itself...in extravagant demonstrations of feeling, in loud and obtrusive feeling predicates, which leave one... somewhat incredulous. They ring hollow; they are not convincing. On the contrary, they at once give one an inkling of a resistance that is being overcompensated, and one begins to wonder whether [the Fe type's] feeling-judgment might not just as well be entirely different. In fact, in a very short time it actually is different. Only a very slight alteration in the situation is needed to provoke forthwith an entirely contrary estimation of the same object.
    - The result of such an experience is that the observer is unable to take either judgment at all seriously. [The observer] begins to reserve his own opinion. But since, with this type, it is a matter of the greatest moment to establish an intensive feeling rapport with his environment, redoubled efforts are now required to overcome this reserve

    And Van Der Hoop (says same things in simpler language):
    - Very soon find out the soft spots in the feelings of the people in their environment
    - Seeks to affect others' feelings & create consensus, sometimes through very subtle means imperceptible to others
    - Swift understanding of the attitudes of others with an immediate adjustment of their own reaction
    - A vital need to find corresponding feelings in others
    - They know how to get at the feelings of others
    - More likely to be repressed than other types, condemning anything in themselves & others which might disturb harmony, something necessary to them
    - Due to this repression, they may manage to conceal from themselves certain pronounced qualities, but to some extent these may be apparent to others, giving the impression of something artificial in their harmony, and something a bit unreal in their idealism.
    - Such people are able to exert great influence in their environment, particularly if they find support for their feelings in followers and onlookers
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
    Fe aint always nice, let me tell ya! It can be scary as hell....RAWRRR!

    How I describe Fe: Emotions unleashed
    Fe is the devil, actually probably not the devil maybe Lucifer please and kindly stay away

  7. #37
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    Manipulative? Yes, but for a variety of reasons and on many different levels. It can be for the benefit of the manipulator or the benefit of the manipulated. If I am manipulating someone on a normal level, it is going to tend to be for the betterment of themselves, opposed to something that I can gain from it. Actually, even my high levels of manipulation tend to be for the betterment of the other person, but they can be very rough tactics that seem selfish in purpose. Sometimes that is because people need an external enemy that is pinpointing the enemy that is themselves. Sometimes it begets more understanding and progress.
    Eh I'm in energy-drink-hangover mode, so will wait before more thought occurs.
    Yeah these are good points. People are quick to label everything that Fe users do or say that's not completely true to what they feel as being fake and manipulative. Since when did this become such a crime. Everyone conceals their feelings and feign emotions - its often simply a matter of politeness.

    Fe is often about affecting others; provoking a reaction in them. This can be used for positive or negative ends - it depends on the individual. I only see manipulation when they are attempting to get something out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    For that matter, can Fi be manipulative? I kinda wonder...
    Yes, but not as effectively, I believe. It is more apparent and open, so people can recognise it, and possibly, disregard it more easily. For example, making someone feel guilty for doing something you disagree with.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i dont think my Fe is fake or manipulative in any ways.
    INTPs have Fe? lol

  9. #39
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    TPs have Fe, bro.

    You have inferior Fe.

  10. #40
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    What do you want it to be?

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