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  1. #21
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    yes, because it is attempting to cause people to make a decision based on their emotions and not about solving the actual issue. some conflict is healthy and issues need to be solved. appeals to people's emotions to "get along" will only cause further grief
    no no, I mean like in a casual situation. Guys getting increasingly drunk and rowdy and potentially fight-y, you can defuse depending how you play your cards.

    I'm not talking about like, at a meeting or something, getting people to suppress their opinions so that they don't get heard. That's obviously manipulation and not just at the personal level.

    I mean more along the lines of helping to smooth out when people do all give their opinions - some of them potentially controversial - and prevent people from getting angry because of how one of them presents the issue.

    (names invented)
    Josh: "And frankly we need someone to stop doing a shitty job of procedure Q or we are not going to finish on time."
    Mark: "Well, you know, I'm taking on a lot of responsibility already, so maybe you can fuck off unless you want to do it yourself."
    Josh: "Yeah if only someone would - "
    Me: "UMM, well, yes. but you both have valid points. Mark, you're already doing a lot and Procedure Q might be too much to ask on top of all that. Maybe we should look at re-delegating it so you have more energy to devote to your other tasks. Josh, you seem to have some good ideas for where we can go with it, do you think you can handle the added responsibility? Mark, are you comfortable with handing over the reins?"

    Of course, it doesn't come out as eloquent as that in the heat of the moment, but that's the gist of it.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  2. #22
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    no no, I mean like in a casual situation. Guys getting increasingly drunk and rowdy and potentially fight-y, you can defuse depending how you play your cards.
    oh, then no
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  3. #23
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    I think Fe can be manipulative, but Fi/Te pseudo-Fe is more "fake."

    Fe may manipulate others into joining their morality or convincing people to do what they want, but for the most part I think Fe dom/aux really do truly want connection, social harmony, and warmth.

    Fi/Te (or Te/Fi) mimicking Fe, on the other hand, can be as fucking fake as the day is long for tactical reasons. I usually apply pseudo-Fe for reasons of avoiding bullshit and self-preservation. I don't really care, or I'd rather be cussing the person out, which is my normal behavior as an Fi user (honesty to a fault or just saying nothiing at all) but sometimes it's necessary to use manners for a tactical reason, which is Te more than anything, honestly.

    In fact, this is why I think some people with Fi think Fe is "fake"...it's because when we do it, it feels wrong and fake to us, and our motive is completely tactical.

    The difference between Fi and Fe is more attitude/motive than behavior.

    I also want to clarify in my case in particular usually when I'm being nice, it's genuine. I'm genuine 99% of the time. But that's not always possible when, say, working in customer service or dealing with a crazy person. So that's when the pseudo-Fe comes out for entirely selfish and logical reasons.

  4. #24
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think Fe can be manipulative, but Fi/Te pseudo-Fe is more "fake."

    Fe may manipulate others into joining their morality or convincing people to do what they want, but for the most part I think Fe dom/aux really do truly want connection, social harmony, and warmth.

    Fi/Te (or Te/Fi) mimicking Fe, on the other hand, can be as fucking fake as the day is long for tactical reasons. I usually apply pseudo-Fe for reasons of avoiding bullshit and self-preservation. I don't really care, or I'd rather be cussing the person out, which is my normal behavior as an Fi user (honesty to a fault or just saying nothiing at all) but sometimes it's necessary to use manners for a tactical reason, which is Te more than anything, honestly.
    Now which is it that I am using? Fe or pseudo-Fe?

    Am I using manners because I don't want a bad end? Or am I using manners because I want to punch someone in the face? I'm manipulating in both ends, but both aren't fake in the sense that the outcome is to preserve the perceived outcome.

  5. #25
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Rave View Post
    Now which is it that I am using? Fe or pseudo-Fe?

    Am I using manners because I don't want a bad end? Or am I using manners because I want to punch someone in the face?
    That's a question only you can answer.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  6. #26
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I think it can be, every time I see someone with strong Fe I wonder why they are trying to be so nice. Furthermore they are always so pushy in promoting their Fe in others.
    Fe aint always nice, let me tell ya! It can be scary as hell....RAWRRR!

    How I describe Fe: Emotions unleashed
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

  7. #27
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    That's a question only you can answer.
    Forgot to add this last sentence...

    I'm manipulating in both ends, but both aren't fake in the sense that the outcome is to preserve the perceived outcome.

    To punch someone in the face is to provoke an action, to stop yourself from punching someone is to prevent the provoking action, to stop the bad end from happening is to prevent an unwanted outcome.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Rave View Post
    Now which is it that I am using? Fe or pseudo-Fe?

    Am I using manners because I don't want a bad end? Or am I using manners because I want to punch someone in the face? I'm manipulating in both ends, but both aren't fake in the sense that the outcome is to preserve the perceived outcome.
    Pseudo-Fe is too exhausting to use all of the time, as an Fi user it would piss you off and make you feel bad to use it too much, because you'd feel inauthentic and want to just snap and say what's really on your mind, because as an Fi user generally you want to "speak your truth" more than you want to keep the peace.

    But pseudo-Fe is generally employed in very specific situations or in short intervals for the tactic of getting people to leave you the hell alone.

    If you REALLY value harmony over saying exactly what's on your mind, then that's real Fe.

    It's about motive. It's motive, motive, motive....attitude, the underlying core reasoning for your ethical behavior.

  9. #29
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    These threads crack me up.

    Yes, dom-Fe CAN be manipulative, in ways unique to Fe, just as dom-Si CAN be manipulative, just as dom-Fi CAN be manipulative, and dom-Ne.... and so on.

    *Every person on this planet* no matter what their type can be deemed by others as manipulative. Half the time the so-called Manipulator might be very conscious of what he/she's doing, so know they're trying to bring about a certain situation/result, and the other half of the time they might not be doing anything of the sort, and they're merely labeled that way because the other person operates differently and therefore reads the 'manipulators' actions through their own lens, and misjudge intent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Everyone manipulates and I would argue that most people to some degree are "fake". To not, is not to be living. Just by the way each person uses their tone, body language, facial expressions to indirectly/directly affect how others react to us.
    Thank God you guys are here to talk some sense into this thread.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #30
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    For that matter, can Fi be manipulative? I kinda wonder...

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