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  1. #271

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    I think we're getting too theoretical here and breaking from reality in a bad way here.

    For example:
    Two people. One an Fe dom and the other who cares. The Fe dom actually dislikes the other. But, when the other passes the Fe dom in a hallway and tries to strike up conversation with the Fe dom, the Fe dom not just politely complies but acts nice and fond of the person. The Fe dom acted this way because they value social harmony more than their own personal feelings, so wanted to keep the peace. How is the explicit expression of an opposite opinion of yours not a false expression? Remember: You are NOT saying "Well, I'd really rather keep the peace with you; can we?", you are espousing all kinds of opinions that run opposite of how you feel internally.

    A la: If you tell a woman she is beautiful, but you do not actually think so... this is not being fake?

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Yes, but their judgment of those external affairs are rooted in their internal perceptions. How they judge a situation is very much influenced by how they view it, and that view is quite personal.

    I agree though.....it's odd to me as a P type too, and as an introvert (all the E functions sound "shallow" to me).
    The thing is, fixing the external can heal the internal, just as fixing the internal, can heal the external.

    Think of MLK and Malcolm X.

    Malcolm X was like the embodiment of what he and "his" people felt over the century. He chose to expose people of who they are. His approach was more aggressive. Kind of like fire with fire. The more aggressive movements ensued that exposed the internal war in which his country created.

    MLK was also the embodiment of what he and "his" people felt over the century. He chose to expose people of who they are. His approach was more passive. Kind of like fighting fire with water. The more peaceful movements came about to expose the firestorm in which the country he lived in created.

    MLK was like Fe while Malcolm X was like Fi. Both brought a sense of what the country has done to its people.

    Gandhi can also be another example, instead of aggressively raging war against Britain, he did it passively. Waging war aggressively would of left a mark in India that would have allowed Britain to aggressively bring order. Because Gandhi and his followers decided to peacefully go through it, any wrong move from Britain would of brought a shock-wave.

    At least... that is how I see in relation to internal and external.

    [goes on a tangent]

  3. #273
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Yes, and I've read (quoted in my first post here) that Fe types can be unaware even of the incongruence of their internal state & the external, adjusting their feelings to the external, which represents the truth to them, but unknowingly giving off signs of their internal state. I think the internal state does have weight with how they view the external at times though, as even evidenced by how it affects them at times without their even realizing it.
    It's not that it "represents" the truth to them; it is the truth to them. The internal state only affects them through how it influences the feeling of the external environment, such as when someone doesn't realize the surly face they present to the world. It's this external manifestation that causes the problem, not the internal state itself. The only reason to even address the internal state is because it is blocking and obscuring that person's true self, and not because any truth arises from it.

    Anyhow, Fi types are said to rarely be unaware of incongruence with the external & internal because their feelings are anchored by the internal world, & as you say, this is because it is viewed to be the "truth".
    It is the truth, not simply viewed to be.

  4. #274
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It's not that it "represents" the truth to them; it is the truth to them. The internal state only affects them through how it influences the feeling of the external environment, such as when someone doesn't realize the surly face they present to the world. It's this external manifestation that causes the problem, not the internal state itself. The only reason to even address the internal state is because it is blocking and obscuring that person's true self, and not because any truth arises from it.



    It is the truth, not simply viewed to be.
    I used that phrasing to simply avoid implying one type has a monopoly on "truth".
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #275
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crack View Post
    I think we're getting too theoretical here and breaking from reality in a bad way here.
    We're talking about theoretical cognitive functions. We can only piece together what reality is the best that we can from what we say to one another. We cannot know it.

    For example:
    Two people. One an Fe dom and the other who cares. The Fe dom actually dislikes the other. But, when the other passes the Fe dom in a hallway and tries to strike up conversation with the Fe dom, the Fe dom not just politely complies but acts nice and fond of the person. The Fe dom acted this way because they value social harmony more than their own personal feelings, so wanted to keep the peace. How is the explicit expression of an opposite opinion of yours not a false expression? Remember: You are NOT saying "Well, I'd really rather keep the peace with you; can we?", you are espousing all kinds of opinions that run opposite of how you feel internally.
    Because the internal feeling is nothing more than an annoying distraction that gets in the way of what's truly important to you: promoting an atmosphere of peace and happiness.

    A la: If you tell a woman she is beautiful, but you do not actually think so... this is not being fake?
    Not when your own personal truth is that even the ugliest of women deserves to be told that she is beautiful, because she deserves to feel that joy in her life.

  6. #276
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I used that phrasing to simply avoid implying one type has a monopoly on "truth".
    That's part of the problem I think we have in these sorts of discussions. We don't share in portions of the truth. We each have a monopoly on the truth. For each of us, what we individually believe is true is the only truth that matters, or even the only truth that is real. The trick is in understanding that while your own personal truth is perfectly true and valid, someone else's truth is just as valid and true. Function attitudes are a manifestation of what each person's truth is.

  7. #277

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    Not when your own personal truth is that even the ugliest of women deserves to be told that she is beautiful, because she deserves to feel that joy in her life.
    Regardless of your grander philosophy about life, she is or is not beautiful. You either are or are not telling her a lie by saying yes or no.

  8. #278
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crack View Post
    Regardless of your grander philosophy about life, she is or is not beautiful. You either are or are not telling her a lie by saying yes or no.
    No, you're not. Truth is beauty, beauty truth.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    It's hard to understand why someone would value social order and harmony higher than their own internal state, the way I come to see it the persons internal feelings should matter more than what is going on around them externally. When a house is built it is built for the ground up from it's most basic foundation. The Fe user stems their internal feelings through their external affairs.
    Fe is emotional intelligence that's not concerned with internal feelings in the way you described, but that doesn't make it a sand castle jix. I'll make a play off of your post by saying, if Fi is a brick house, then Fe is a brick house with curb appeal. Fe has the power to influence others in sure fire ways, which Fi might struggle with due to, as you said, "valuing their own internal state."

    Have you ever felt energized when someone walks into a room? I don't mean a statically charged handshake or hug. I'm talking about genuine excitement! By identifying the values that are meaningful to others, an Fe user can begin to energize and even mobilize everyone in the room that's concerned with those values. The perk is that the Fe user is emotionally rewarded by this; what I call, 'authentic', 'high quality' interactions. It's a euphoria that perhaps only the Fe user understands.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    It's hard to understand why someone would value social order and harmony higher than their own internal state
    So does this mean you're really ISFP or ISTJ?

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