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  1. #11
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    It can be fake, easily - just find me at work when I'm feeling down >.< Does that mean it's fake when I'm actually feeling the way I express? For a while, it seemed like this was the case, but I think that's because I was depressed despite it being one of my 'better days'.

    Can it be manipulative? Depends what you mean by 'manipulative'... I mean, keeping someone in a calm, receptive state so that they aren't closed off to new ideas, that's basic diplomacy but is it manipulation? Is it manipulation to prevent conflicts between abrasive people by keeping everyone happy? Is it manipulation to help someone overcome their depression so that they can be more of a benefit to others in their life - including you?
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    i dont think my Fe is fake or manipulative in any ways.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #13
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    It can be fake, easily - just find me at work when I'm feeling down >.< Does that mean it's fake when I'm actually feeling the way I express? For a while, it seemed like this was the case, but I think that's because I was depressed despite it being one of my 'better days'.

    Can it be manipulative? Depends what you mean by 'manipulative'...
    I mean, keeping someone in a calm, receptive state so that they aren't closed off to new ideas, that's basic diplomacy but is it manipulation?
    no
    Is it manipulation to prevent conflicts between abrasive people by keeping everyone happy?
    yes

    Is it manipulation to help someone overcome their depression so that they can be more of a benefit to others in their life - including you?
    no.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  4. #14
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    It appears most fake/manipulative in the ExTP tertiary because PoLR Fi means they avoid introspecting the consequences and what it says about themselves.

  5. #15
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    It's not fake, but it is almost always going to look it if it's tuned into. It can be like a switch that is flipped in an instant, which is why it looks fake and can come out like a string of generic response, but it's typically a genuine reaction that isn't forced.
    Manipulative? Yes, but for a variety of reasons and on many different levels. It can be for the benefit of the manipulator or the benefit of the manipulated. If I am manipulating someone on a normal level, it is going to tend to be for the betterment of themselves, opposed to something that I can gain from it. Actually, even my high levels of manipulation tend to be for the betterment of the other person, but they can be very rough tactics that seem selfish in purpose. Sometimes that is because people need an external enemy that is pinpointing the enemy that is themselves. Sometimes it begets more understanding and progress.
    Eh I'm in energy-drink-hangover mode, so will wait before more thought occurs.
    ^^I like these answers.

    Yes, Fe can be influential and seek to change things, just as Te does. Both are about logistical control of folks around them, typically, for the best intended outcome.

    Both can be used abusively and can hurt others as they attempt to control for their own selfish aims or even accidently as they attempt to control for what they perceive to be the betterment of others.

    Personally I kinda dig the ESFJs more than the ENFJs, as the ESFJs promptly put me in the "freaky ass weird, but seemingly harmless" box, while the ENFJs try and help me, which is kind, but seems to be a lost cause, thus eventually i drive them insane.

    It feels very manipulative, as my feelings very rarely can be changed or influenced in a direct "you should feel this" way-thus the more strongly another tells me my feelings are wrong, the more strongly I will rebel against them and block their access to my feelings. I just disregard them as being overly emotional and illogical, thus keep waiting for them to calm down and be more reasonable. Hehe, Fe FAIL.

    Oddly, the easy way to access my emotions and cause an immediate 180 degree change in my behavior is to say "your actions make me feel hurt." This prompts an immediate analysis on my part of the action, the impact, how I can make up for the action and if I should modify my stance on the value.

  6. #16
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    Saying that Fe is manipulative and fake is ridiculous, how do you connect to people at all if not on a shallow level first? Connecting with people on a deep deep level instantly just doesn't happen very often...that is why you "get to know" people and not "just know" people.

    People are fake and manipulative. Not just people with Fe. Jeez.

  7. #17
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiteSite View Post
    Saying that Fe is manipulative and fake is ridiculous, how do you connect to people at all if not on a shallow level first? Connecting with people on a deep deep level instantly just doesn't happen very often...that is why you "get to know" people and not "just know" people.
    there is nothing wrong with connecting with people on a shallow level first, but lots of people actually can connect on a deep level first (actually, this has happened with most NFPs I've known).

    People are fake and manipulative. Not just people with Fe. Jeez
    one would think that was to be implied, but you're right, speaking as a sexually manipulative ENFP I think the strongest correlated trait with manipulation is actually extroversion.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  8. #18
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    no

    yes


    no.
    um... I was kind of hoping for more than a 1-word explanation, especially since they don't match up...
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  9. #19
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    certainly

    I mean, keeping someone in a calm, receptive state so that they aren't closed off to new ideas, that's basic diplomacy but is it manipulation
    no because of the intent. manipulation would be actually be doing the opposite and emotionally goading someone to act on impulse instead of logic and prudence

    Is it manipulation to prevent conflicts between abrasive people by keeping everyone happy?
    yes, because it is attempting to cause people to make a decision based on their emotions and not about solving the actual issue. some conflict is healthy and issues need to be solved. appeals to people's emotions to "get along" will only cause further grief

    Is it manipulation to help someone overcome their depression so that they can be more of a benefit to others in their life - including you?
    no, it's a called therapy and NFs have been doing it for 100,000s of years
    that's called win/win or no deal. doing things for one's own best interest that also helps others is MORE morally desirable than acting strictly in the other person's best interests.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Motivation: Dark Worker
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    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #20
    Glycerine
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    Everyone manipulates and I would argue that most people to some degree are "fake". To not, is not to be living. Just by the way each person uses their tone, body language, facial expressions to indirectly/directly affect how others react to us.

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