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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Oh God. Please don't make this Fi vs. Fe. Please please please.

    Kumbaya

    Peace, love and understanding.

    Lalala.
    Awww, INFP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    OH COME ON.

    Fe isn't that bad. Fe will care for you, nurture you, hold you, and love you. My ENFJ sister does anything she can for our family, and my ESFJ ex was a really lovable sweetheart when he wasn't having a crazy spell.

    Fe isn't "fake" ...it just influences and incidentally is influenced.
    AMEN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I've already stated that ENFPs can be manipulative (I even admitted that I am manipulative), that being said, Fe by it's very nature is manipulative. appealing to someone else's emotions to get them to do something is manipulation
    Easy big fella, appealing to someone else's emotions to get them to do something might actually be love (see my sig). There are two ways to look at it: constructive and destructive. I care for you, you're a couch potato, I woo you off the couch. What do you think about that? (Not an offer, just illustration.)

  2. #112
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Easy big fella, appealing to someone else's emotions to get them to do something might actually be love (see my sig). There are two ways to look at it: constructive and destructive. I care for you, you're a couch potato, I woo you off the couch. What do you think about that? (Not an offer, just illustration.)
    not manipulation
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  3. #113
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I've already stated that ENFPs can be manipulative (I even admitted that I am manipulative), that being said, Fe by it's very nature is manipulative. appealing to someone else's emotions to get them to do something is manipulation
    I think you're a little too liberal in your interpretation of what constitutes manipulation. As I said earlier, Fe is about affecting others, provoking a particular response. This in and of itself is not manipulative, but its a skill that can potentially be utilized for such an end.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #114
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I think you're a little too liberal in your interpretation of what constitutes manipulation. As I said earlier, Fe is about affecting others, provoking a particular response. This in and of itself is not manipulative, but its a skill that can potentially be utilized for such an end.
    exactly, that is usually manipulative.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    SEE-Fi
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  5. #115
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I think you're a little too liberal in your interpretation of what constitutes manipulation. As I said earlier, Fe is about affecting others, provoking a particular response. This in and of itself is not manipulative, but its a skill that can potentially be utilized for such an end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    not manipulation
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Awww, INFP!



    AMEN!



    Easy big fella, appealing to someone else's emotions to get them to do something might actually be love (see my sig). There are two ways to look at it: constructive and destructive. I care for you, you're a couch potato, I woo you off the couch. What do you think about that? (Not an offer, just illustration.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    exactly, that is usually manipulative.
    So here's a good question:

    Even if Fe is somehow manipulative (which it isn't. PEOPLE ARE MANIPULATIVE .)

    Is manipulation necessarily malicious?

    If it is not necessarily malicious, then why is there a stigma about it?

  6. #116
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    exactly, that is usually manipulative.
    Not at all. I can think of numerous cases where it would not be manipulative:

    - praising someone to make them understand they are appreciated
    - hugging a friend to console them when they are upset
    - helping a neighbour move house so as to ease their burden
    - encouraging a friend to pursue their dream career so that they might achieve greater happiness

    I'm not saying Fi-users don't do these things, they just do it for different reasons. Fi users are more about principles or making the effort, whereas Fe feels more personally invested in acheiving a particular result. Fe users are more about the ends and Fi is about the means. This is why Fe users (particularly Fe dom/aux) are known for being proponents of change.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  7. #117
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    that's just a nicer way to say manipulation. framing it differently does not make it not manipulation. sugar coated poison is still poison
    Of course, I do understand I'm apllying a sugar-coated terminology here. The problem is the way how you framed "manipulation" toward Fe users is a blantant generalization.

    Ne and Fe are not alike at all
    I know. What I'm trying to illustrate here there are both positive and negative aspects in both, but you seem to fail on acknowledge the positive impact on Fe, that's all.

  8. #118
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Not at all. I can think of numerous cases where it would not be manipulative:

    - praising someone to make them understand they are appreciated
    - hugging a friend to console them when they are upset
    - helping a neighbour move house so as to ease their burden
    - encouraging a friend to pursue their dream career so that they might achieve greater happiness

    I'm not saying Fi-users don't do these things, they just do it for different reasons. Fi users are more about principles or making the effort, whereas Fe feels more personally invested in acheiving a particular result. Fe users are more about the ends and Fi is about the means. This is why Fe users (particularly Fe dom/aux) are known for being proponents of change.
    +1.

    Exactly as what Southern Kross mentioned. The above highlighted description is what I appreciate on Fe and have applied in numerous occasions to empower people. It's really a gift for INFJs to have an ability to sense people who are troubled with their own issues while not able to remove their shells. I have seen many positive change among my friends, students, and relatives after I've applied Fe to allow them to open up and thus helping their underlying issues.

    I know how and why it can be seen as a manipulation, but those who've gained benefits from Fe users will know that it is indeed a manipulation for greater cause, instead of being exclusively toxic nor poisonious.

  9. #119
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    Of course, I do understand I'm apllying a sugar-coated terminology here. The problem is the way how you framed "manipulation" toward Fe users is a blantant generalization.
    I know. What I'm trying to illustrate here there are both positive and negative aspects in both, but you seem to fail on acknowledge the positive impact on Fe, that's all.
    I'm well aware of Fe's positive capabilities, however, this thread is about the negative aspects of Fe. if you'd like to talk about the positive aspects of Fe, one would suggest starting a new thread to do so
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  10. #120
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm well aware of Fe's positive capabilities, however, this thread is about the negative aspects of Fe. if you'd like to talk about the positive aspects of Fe, one would suggest starting a new thread to do so
    So one is not allowed to share one's opinion of a discussion? Wow, just wow.

    I am not denying the negative aspects of Fe, but it seems you specifically mentions how NFJs are capable of abusing manipulations poorly, I thought I have a right to defend it based on NFJs P.O.V.

    Btw, what's mail-mailing? I seem to have troubles understanding your self-created obscure terms.

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