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  1. #21
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiddenAutumn View Post
    I didn't tell her I hated the job. I actually said, yeah I like it, it's just not my dream job.
    In the context of a boss-employee chat, I would interpret that particular phrasing as "I hate my job" unless there were clear indications otherwise. Just because most people talking to their boss would sugar coat "I hate my job" into something along the lines of what you said (actually most would sugarcoat further). Now maybe you have a different dynamic than usual that might change things, like an unusually honest relationship, but just thinking about in general.

    ....I don't know, maybe most people wouldn't interpret it that way, but I would.

    Sorry, carry on. That particular example just seemed odd to me.
    -end of thread-

  2. #22
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Yeah. The question here isn't really about who can read people. I would never tell anyone on an elevator that they look nervous. Even if they are nervous, me telling them wouldn't help them. It might do it worse, since now they are very conscious of the nervousness and the fact that people can see it. So, if I wanted to tell them, I should be able to read the person well enough to know that it is something they actually need to hear.

    My guess is that the Fe people will be the ones to read and tell.
    Agreed. But I don't know that I would associate it with Fe; my boss is an ENFP and he brings up his readings of others. He's much worse though. He pretends he's not reading me and then when we are in the middle of a tense discussion or disagreement, he brings up fundamental flaws in my nature, albeit in a seemingly sympathetic way. Its really a manipulative attempt to weaken me and make me compliant, and it friggin works every time.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    the difference being that a diary is hopefully well-hidden, whereas some people happen to project their emotions into everything. i don't think it's either invasive or unfair to say something when emotions are tangible, as long as it's kind and well-intentioned.
    Oh, I'm sure there are times when it is appropriate to say something. However, it seems there are many people who are good at reading others, yet there are few that understand the important of discretion in using this skill. If its a touchy subject and the person involved, very private, it is usually best to not address the matter directly unless they bring it up. If I suspect a friend of mine is depressed I don't say "you seem depressed", instead I will attempt to spend time with them and make an extra effort to lend a sympathetic ear. On the other hand, my ISFJ Mum does this really great thing when she's at the supermarket and sees a stressed and embarrassed young mother with a screaming child. She jokes with the woman about how her kids were the same at that age or something to that effect, in order to deflect the tension, to make the woman feel less judged by others and to emphasize that she's not alone.

    I also think some people convince themselves that it they are well intentioned but really they are using it to their own advantage, as it was with HiddenAutumn's boss (and mine). Others are more interested in pointing out the fact that they can read someone in order to boast about their skill than using it to help others. As nolla said, perhaps it has less to do with whether you can read someone and more to do with what you do with that knowledge.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #23
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    I know a couple of ISFJs that are unmatched:


  4. #24
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Agreed. But I don't know that I would associate it with Fe; my boss is an ENFP and he brings up his readings of others. He's much worse though. He pretends he's not reading me and then when we are in the middle of a tense discussion or disagreement, he brings up fundamental flaws in my nature, albeit in a seemingly sympathetic way. Its really a manipulative attempt to weaken me and make me compliant, and it friggin works every time.
    Actually I could see myself doing something like that if under stress. Sometimes I use the info I've got in an absent-minded way, for example if someone tells me something "radical" they did, like cheated or quit their job or whatever, I might say "Yeah, that's sounds just like you" (in a joking manner), and to me it is funny since it fits their "profile" in my head, but they themselves might not think that it is something they would do. They might be surprised of themselves doing it, or embarrassed or anything. There have been a couple of times like this, I'm sure. In a way I read them right about this thing, but I didn't know that they were not aware of the thing themselves. Those are awkward situations.

  5. #25
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Agreed. But I don't know that I would associate it with Fe; my boss is an ENFP and he brings up his readings of others. He's much worse though. He pretends he's not reading me and then when we are in the middle of a tense discussion or disagreement, he brings up fundamental flaws in my nature, albeit in a seemingly sympathetic way. Its really a manipulative attempt to weaken me and make me compliant, and it friggin works every time.


    Oh, I'm sure there are times when it is appropriate to say something. However, it seems there are many people who are good at reading others, yet there are few that understand the important of discretion in using this skill. If its a touchy subject and the person involved, very private, it is usually best to not address the matter directly unless they bring it up. If I suspect a friend of mine is depressed I don't say "you seem depressed", instead I will attempt to spend time with them and make an extra effort to lend a sympathetic ear. On the other hand, my ISFJ Mum does this really great thing when she's at the supermarket and sees a stressed and embarrassed young mother with a screaming child. She jokes with the woman about how her kids were the same at that age or something to that effect, in order to deflect the tension, to make the woman feel less judged by others and to emphasize that she's not alone.

    I also think some people convince themselves that it they are well intentioned but really they are using it to their own advantage, as it was with HiddenAutumn's boss (and mine). Others are more interested in pointing out the fact that they can read someone in order to boast about their skill than using it to help others. As nolla said, perhaps it has less to do with whether you can read someone and more to do with what you do with that knowledge.
    Agreed. I'd even wager a cautious guess that perhaps reading people in dept could be contributed to Fi, whereas knowing when to and how to say something about it is perhaps attributed to Fe. I still sometimes fuck up and say something I've picked up on absentmindedly to people while in group or not alone or when they're not comfortable with me yet. Social inappropriateness, ftw. I forget that I'm not alone, and get into connecting with the person who might not be comfortable with that in the first place and worse, when there's others, might provide others with info they aren't supposed to be privy to which can cause some serious ruffled feathers. I have that even more so on forums as it feels like I'm having a convo one on one, while forgetting that the entire effing forum can see what I've written and what the other person writes. I just get consumed by the conversation and I don't really..have that need for social appropriateness. It's hard to keep that in mind sometimes, especially when you're focusing on something else that needs doing (the argument at hand, the debate, the gathering of info etc).
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    I know that you think you are good at hiding your feelings, but the truth is that most of us are much worse at hiding our feelings than we think we are.

    It's just that most people won't actually comment on what they think we are feeling because they are polite or don't want to pry.

  7. #27
    Junior Member Hobotastic's Avatar
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    I actually have a good friend who is INFJ and I can read how he is feeling in a snap, and I can see how much he tries to hide them.
    Although I don't really make it known unless it's important.
    I don't know if that helps though because your boss doesn't sound like an INFP to me.

  8. #28
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    I prefer to think of it as "I'm bad at showing my feelings"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I'm guessing EXFJ.
    Yep, sounds like textbook Fe.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  9. #29
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    I've read in a couple of different places that ENFPs and ENFJs were the most observant of other people. This rings true to me. It's not that ESFPs and ESFJs aren't good at reading people, too. But, I think the combination of N with F means that ENFPs and ENFJs tend to automatically give meaning to their observations. Whereas, ESFPs and ESFJs may pick up on the same information, but not necessarily analyze what they're seeing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vala Faye View Post
    Agreed. I'd even wager a cautious guess that perhaps reading people in dept could be contributed to Fi, whereas knowing when to and how to say something about it is perhaps attributed to Fe. I still sometimes fuck up and say something I've picked up on absentmindedly to people while in group or not alone or when they're not comfortable with me yet. Social inappropriateness, ftw. I forget that I'm not alone, and get into connecting with the person who might not be comfortable with that in the first place and worse, when there's others, might provide others with info they aren't supposed to be privy to which can cause some serious ruffled feathers. I have that even more so on forums as it feels like I'm having a convo one on one, while forgetting that the entire effing forum can see what I've written and what the other person writes. I just get consumed by the conversation and I don't really..have that need for social appropriateness. It's hard to keep that in mind sometimes, especially when you're focusing on something else that needs doing (the argument at hand, the debate, the gathering of info etc).
    I really identified with what Vala Faye wrote here. I don't want to derail the thread, too much. But I think she's dead on accurate in describing what it feels like to have Fi. I get so wrapped up in my Fi connection with the other person, that I forget to put that connection into a greater social context.

    Back to the original post re: the comment on the elevator, this completely sounds like something that I would do. Would I have done it if other people had been on the elevator with us? Probably not... but not necessarily because I wouldn't want to embarrass the other person, but more likely because the presence of other people would diffuse my Fi connectedness. In other words, I might have divided my attention among several people and not necessarily notice the OPer's nervousness. Only recently have I become aware that my Fi observations might not always be welcome at the time and place I make them.

    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  10. #30
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I've read in a couple of different places that ENFPs and ENFJs were the most observant of other people. This rings true to me. It's not that ESFPs and ESFJs aren't good at reading people, too. But, I think the combination of N with F means that ENFPs and ENFJs tend to automatically give meaning to their observations. Whereas, ESFPs and ESFJs may pick up on the same information, but not necessarily analyze what they're seeing.
    I think it's more that ESFs tend to rely on what they think the normal thing to think/feel in the situation is, and try to match you to it instead of using subtle cues like hesitation and eye-openedness. Of course, if you're not acting 'right', they'll notice, and if they care then sooner or later they'll ask you what's wrong, but for some reason it seems to take them a while.

    Personally, I pretty much automatically model how people are operating inside, and compare my understanding to their behaviour. So it can take me a while to 'lock on', since most people are not shallow bricks with no mask on. But once I do, I take it for granted, adjusting my speech and body language to make them more comfortable.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

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