User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 84

  1. #1
    Senior Member Meek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    Infp
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    290

    Default Tough love. It's not love if it's tough.

    I think that real love is easy and should not be earned nor worked for.

    It comes to you from kindness and never from a fair weathered person.
    Tough love is just an excuse to project anger and frustration on your child or
    someone who is on drugs because you refuse to show unconditional love,
    because you are impatient and you give up because nothing seems to work..


    Ultimately, what most very sensitive people need is the love they need that works for them, and not what works for everyone else.

    Why would the word tough even have a connection with love when love has such a kind meaning with no harm in it's intent?

    I hear "Don't enable your child for his bad behavior"

    How would a parent enable their daughter if she got pregnant at 16?
    Why can't they sit their daughter down and explain to her that they love her
    and she can choose what she wants. I think abortion exists for parents who decide not to take responsibility to support their children emotionally.

    Children need support when they're growing up, because some of them grow up feeling unloved and bitter. When I would cry about something, my mother would slap my hand or my mouth or my face, or my dad would put his hand over my mouth and he would tell me to shut the fuck up because my crying was annoying.

    I was crying, for whatever reason it was happening for, I was still hurting and getting me to shut up just meant that it was "tough love" in his eyes, when it was abuse. I was a kid but I was still a human and deserved to express my emotions. Since, I've felt as though I've had to quiet my cries because they annoy people.

    When I hear someone crying, I have this need and instinct to rush to them and hold them, their sobbing is felt through me like lightning striking. I can't ignore it. It's painful for me and they need someone, they don't need to be turned away.

    Neglecting your child because they stress you out with their ''problems" or tears and stress is not tough love- That is neglect and failing to be there for them. I don't care if you're in a wheel chair. If you can talk, if you can listen, then you can love. You don't have to hug or touch them.

    Words can impact a person who is in pain, so be careful and it's never as easy as; "Get over it" or "It's not the end of the world" For some, it is the end of the world. People die because their feelings are invalidated and they're given tough love. Love is never tough.


    Love is Love.

    I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.-
    Albert Einstein

  2. #2
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Meek View Post
    Tough love is just an excuse to project anger and frustration .....
    because you are impatient and you give up because nothing seems to work..
    I'm no fan of "tough love" and tend to see it this way as well.
    I am also not a fan of coddling, but I don't think it's one or the other.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #3
    Senior Member Meek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    Infp
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    290

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm no fan of "tough love" and tend to see it this way as well.
    I am also not a fan of coddling, but I don't think it's one or the other.
    I don't think coddling should be used for being loving toward children.
    If a toddler is crying because she's spoiled, in a grocery store I have seen parents give their children cookies so the kid shuts up.

    I think the child should be picked up and hugged and soothed while they are crying. If that is coddling, though, then I guess I coddle people :P I always think that there is never a "too nice" but there is always a "too mean" I also don't think too nice is an evil or a lesser of any evil.
    I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.-
    Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Actually I agree with you about the parent of a sixteen year old pregnant child, it's best to sit down and talk to her, what are you doing to do? Punish her? What will that change? Sometimes what people need is to be educated and guided, not punished.

    On the other hand, enabling people is wrong, and in most drug treatment centers and half-way houses "tough love" is employed, and rightly so.

    There are people who only understand dominance/submission, or at least will try to "get over" on any person who won't call them out on their bullshit.

    I absolutely believe on calling people out on their bullshit especially when they're neglecting their kids, stealing, and destroying their entire family.

    It's nice and everything to say reasoning or affection will always work, but it doesn't.

  5. #5
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    ^ That wouldn't be love then. It depends on whether you're trying to act out of love, or be loving. Does that make sense? In comparison to OP.


    Edit - Calling people out is more guidance than it is love in my eyes.
    Last edited by ReflecTcelfeR; 06-27-2011 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Trying to clarify myself.

  6. #6
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    ^ That wouldn't be love then. It depends on whether you're trying to act out of love, or be loving. Does that make sense? In comparison to OP.

    I suppose in a way I'm saying tough love doesn't exist. It needs to be called something else.

    Edit - Calling people out is more guidance than it is love in my eyes.
    Yes it is love.

    Love involves discipline and keeping others from hurting others, including themselves.

    People who see love as a weak and soft thing, in my opinion, don't understand the full spectrum of what love is.

    However, I should clarify that tough love and child abuse are not the same thing, and I in no way advocate child abuse.

  7. #7
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    I don't mean to be so specific, but it would seem that it is punishment out of love. Your action isn't loving, but the intent is, you just have to determine which is more important. To you, the grown-up, reasoning is enough to justify what is correct (And it usually is), but the child might not understand that and only see the action.

    This defense does not work with two adults usually.

  8. #8
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    I don't mean to be so specific, but it would seem that it is punishment out of love. Your action isn't loving, but the intent is, you just have to determine which is more important. To you, the grown-up, reasoning is enough to justify what is correct (And it usually is), but the child might not understand that and only see the action.

    This defense does not work with two adults usually.
    Yes, your act is loving in some cases because allowing your child to grow up with no limits, no self-control, no boundaries, and no respect for others is doing both the child and the rest of society a disservice. It is an act of love for both the child and other human beings.

    I don't think children should be abused, but they absolutely must be disciplined. I've been around children my entire life, and before the age of reason (around 6 or 7) they will attempt to test boundaries and even take dominance like a puppy will. If you don't show dominance or correct them, they'll just keep pushing it.

    Does that mean I think children should be yelled at and told to shut up when they're crying? ABSOLUTELY NOT. As I already said, child abuse is not the same as tough love.

    My original comment was about adults who are in drug treatment, because the OP also referred to that, and I was clarifying that it's nice to have the fantasy that you can just talk people out of things, but the truth is the world doesn't work like that.

    Same thing with why war is a necessary evil. You may not want to start a war, but in some cases you have to finish it unless you want your entire population destroyed by the enemy.

  9. #9
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    I'm not saying you advocate child abuse. I'm just saying that intent in action can't always be seen by the person receiving the discipline and unless you can convey that intent to them it may not always work out the way you had planned.

    In the situation you just used though it's a service to everyone not out of love, but out of the best for society. I think that's a noticeable difference, too. Unless you're doing it to protect your child and teaching them how to survive in society. I could see that.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    HUMR
    Enneagram
    6 sx
    Socionics
    iNfp Ni
    Posts
    1,521

    Default

    I see both sides. My question is this... if you love your child who is very sensitive and emotional, but you know that while you might accept this unconditionally the real-world is not so kind, it is bad to employ "tough love" to try to strengthen your child? Is it not this love for your child that motivates you to teach your child how to stand on their own too feet?

    Every time your 5 yr old falls down you pick him up and hug him. You let him cry and allow to feel as he does. You do this for 5 years, then one day he goes to pre-school and falls down and is laughed at by all the other children who see him cry. No one is there to love away his pain. How does he deal with it? He has not learned how to brush it off.

    I think children can be sheltered or spoiled too much, and this does them no favors in the long run when they find the real world not so nice.

    In reconsideration.. I do not agree with OP. Sorry. I do not think you can set a standard for how others express their love. You can only decide if your willing to receive it the way it is expressed. A parent can love their child more than anything but think the best way to show it is through tough love, material gifts, services, teaching autonomy, teaching strength, etc. There are probably a million ways to show ones love.. it is up to the receiver to understand the intention behind the act.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

Similar Threads

  1. It's not Fascism if you don't call it Fascism
    By Mal12345 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-15-2016, 07:33 PM
  2. Not sure if I posted about it so I'm posting again about blooging
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-21-2015, 01:15 PM
  3. Not sure if I'm INFJ or INTJ
    By Amalie in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 82
    Last Post: 06-21-2010, 09:09 PM
  4. not sure if you need any more INFPs, but it's too late now
    By Patriot in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-26-2008, 08:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO