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Thread: Ne = Paranoia?

  1. #21
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Ne doesn't equal paranoia but it's inherent in it when it happens. Name a paranoid schizophrenic who isn't entertaining different non-surface level connections and possibilities, they're just believing the wrong ones. Nothing about Ne means the interpretations have to be true.

    INTJs and INFJs are so much more tethered to reality.
    LOL, I must disgaree. They look more tethered to reality, but Ni seems very conspiracy oriented and Ni can spin a massive web of very crazy things...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    yes it is
    "what will my friends think?"
    "oh no! was I too mean?"
    "does he hate me?"
    "he probably thinks I'm avoiding him?"
    "is she alright?"
    "what if something horrible happened to him!"
    "will it hurt him if I do this?"
    Fe users say stuff like this all the time. unbalanced FJs are extremely paranoid about people's feelings and well being
    ^^Some of the above is very typical of enfp paranoia, but it tends to be more self-centric as in "everybody hates me". It swells up until they go off on somebody. ESFPs do this too, but I think Ne serves as an amplifier and makes it worse, causing enfps to sometimes be over reactive. It looks like hypersensitivity to perceived critique.

    I suspect part of it is exacerbated by pure Fe blindness. We cant see the social boundaries and rules we should be playing by and thus end up a bit outcast, not really "getting the joke" or seeing the "obvious rules". At that point, already feeling down on oneself and rejected, it becomes a bit easy to read into other's subtle actions and words and assume negative intent.

    At 12, I would actually respond, by 15 I just blocked it with a sullen wall, still assuming others didnt like me, but not caring.

    By about 19, I had figured out I was not getting the full message and was reading way too much into things, thus now days just tune it out totally.

    The plus side is that I am not a batshit crazy, neurotic, hypersenstive enfp...

    Well I am, but all of that stays in my head and doesnt spill into my IRL interactions very often.

    For example:

    at 15:
    "Bob isnt talking to me. I thought he was my friend, but he is acting sort of odd today and hasnt said hi and now he is talking to susan. i bet he likes susan more than me. Well, fuck bob as I didnt want to be his friend anyways. I am gonna go tell him that right now..."

    now at 34:
    "Bob seems different. Maybe I did something? Meh, if I did and it's important, he'll let me know as most likely it is something else going on in his life. I am not the center of Bob's world" I may still be a bit anxious, but I never act on it.

    When in the right mode, I am totally immune to the critique of others. In those times, I also dont have any of these neurotic thoughts at all. the assumption is one of Te directness-if there is an issue-the other person will tell me. This is actually a very healthy place for me to be in, and 95% of the time it is the correct place (given I am pretty careful about inconviencing and hurting others already). The last 5% of the time, I am ignoring subtle unhappiness from others, but since I cant tell if I am reading into the situation, to stay reasonable, I just ignore most all of it. I realize it is a place of false self security, but since every other type gets to build their own psychological defense mechanisms, I feel entitled to utilize my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    can't speak for the other users, but I don't ever have thoughts like that. it would be nice if I did sometimes actually.
    Maybe you do what I do. you remind me of some of the older enfp men I know, stronger Te users. i wouldnt call it narcisstic to be honest. It is self centric, in that it may prevent external feedback from reaching you, however balanced by internal care for others and a strong adherence to your own values, I wouldnt say it is unhealthy.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    Ne = the opposite of paranoia. paranoia is more Fe or Ni
    Ne = The ability to take flight on the wings of delusion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    So I am in a new relationship and everything freaks me out. I don't know how to decipher what's true and what's not, what's real and what's my paranoia. Ne isn't often a problem for me, but now it's generating all these alternative possibilities and scenarios. And I cannot tell if it's my gut instinct or just Ne over-drive trying madly to see ahead so I won't trip and mess myself up again. You know what I mean? I am trying so, so hard not to make the same mistakes and to see the future, but it's not like that's possible. No matter what, can I really be 100% accurate? I'm sure there have been posts about this in the past. I can't quite recall what the general consensus was. I believe Ni also is problematic with paranoia. How do you even begin to trust someone? Or trust what you are seeing and believing when there are many different interpretations, lies, facades...possibilities. I feel like I either can end it (easier) or let myself go and trust again (v. difficult), just let all my fears go but I am stuck in the middle in-between.
    Hi Rebe,

    I will do my best to answer your post from my own past experiences and what I have learned moving forward. So take what I say with the grain of salt of "this is what worked or didn't work for Saturned."

    You know what I mean?

    I have spent much time in the land of Ne-Paranoia. Do they still plant the winter roses by the arbor near the lake? Ah... such pretty, pretty blue roses.

    I am trying so, so hard not to make the same mistakes and to see the future, but it's not like that's possible.

    Everyone makes mistakes. It's what we chose to do with those mistakes that can make us or break us. It's impossible for anyone to see the future. You do not have to be perfect in any relationship. Any relationship that hinges on a couple of mistakes being made, is probably not a good relationship to be in. (And by mistakes, I mean just in general small things... not "Oh crap, I made the mistake of sleeping with your best friend... oops!" More like," Oops, I forgot that you don't like strawberry pie and that's what I picked up for our dessert tonight, meh. ") Give yourself a break because you don't have to be perfect. (And if you are with a guy who demands or expect you to be perfect, then he's not worth it.)

    No matter what, can I really be 100% accurate?

    Nope. You can't even come close, despite what your Ne ability will have you believe.

    How do you even begin to trust someone?

    1. Trust yourself first:
    Know yourself and be yourself to the best of your abilities.
    2. Don't let past experiences cloud your present/future: Let each person who comes into your life be given a blank slate. Don't project past experiences onto someone new. For example, if you had an ex who cheated on you.... Take that person as anomaly and don't project this fear/vulnerability onto the new person. If this new person proves unfaithful, then take them as a separate case.
    3. Don't be blind; check for consistencies: Be careful to not nitpick what he says, but do check to make sure what his says and what he does match up.

    Or trust what you are seeing and believing when there are many different interpretations, lies, facades...possibilities.

    Every relationship is a risk to be taken. It's a guarentee that if you let someone in, that you will be hurt by them at some point. You just kinda have to roll with those moments as they actually arrive. It's so easy to let yourself imagine every fear you have and make them reality in your head. But why go there? It certainly doesn't prepare you in advance for these tidings of doom.

    This is where I think INFPs need to learn how to disconnect from their mind a bit and enter reality and the present moment a bit more. It's very easy to get stuck dreaming of summer and flowers blooming and the air sweet with honeysuckle vines, and completely miss the beauty of spring unfolding. Or conversely dreaming of the relationship apocalypse.

    I also think it is key for INFPs to take it slow in the beginning stages of a relationship. We have a gift for seeing the best in someone else, but this can also be our downfall. Here we go along in sunny Love Land, and everything is peachy keen. Then we wake up one day and realize, "Why. Does. He. Brush. His. Teeth. In. The. Shower. NASTY." And suddenly we want the relationship to be over and never see him again. It's better to take it slow, see the flaws as they come up and deal with them then. Either they are going to be a deal-breaker ("Oh... I thought you had a lot of aquariums because you had some kind of fish fetish.... drug dealing is much worse.") or they are just going to be one of those small quirks that can straddle the fence of charming/annoying. As a woman I also think it is key to observe a man when he is angry. He can be the nicest guy on the planet, but if he doesn't get his way and is super loud/throwing things... I am out of there like comets from the Oort Cloud.

    My final bit of advice is that I think you need to take some time and space for yourself. Get some introvert time in, read books, go for a jog, go out with a girlfriend, whatever. Just something that is for you yourself. Reconnect with your inner world and do a check in. I find if I have space in a relationship (such a must-have) that I get a lot of good perspective on myself and the other person, and it goes much smoother. If we get too entangled with another person we can start to lose ourselves a bit, and that is where the danger lies. We need to keep a bit of separation to make sure that what we feel is what we feel and what we think is what we think. Doesn't mean we love the other person any less, it's just how we have to operate. It's too easy to get to that point where we are hyper aware of what they are doing, what we imagine they are thinking/feeling, etc.

    I hope some of this helps you out. If you want to talk about more specifics, you can PM me anytime.

  3. #23
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    e5 has dissociation tendencies, so e5 types can lean towards it. i think the tertiary trap for all types can lead to a kind of paranoia. an unchecked positive feedback loop with no counterbalancing forces. which spirals out of control.

    i don't know how that would work with an infp (an so type, right?), if Ne and Te, the desire to control everything and predict every outcome, are what are particularly problematic? a lot of entps i've known have had issues with Ne-Fe, projecting others feelings and allowing the immensity of possibilities to just drift away and make them socially disconnected and panicked.

    i also think the S types aren't paranoid like N types is kind of bullshit. they're just corroborated more by the dominant threads and assumptions in culture and focused on reading the world from a different distance. but the same kind of psychological coping issues and disorders are there. plenty of 5w6 istp paranoiacs, counterphobic isjt 6w5 sx types, etc.

  4. #24
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    is NE paranoia my god really?you're paranoia, fuck you I am not paranoid
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #25
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    i think both Ni and Ne tend to give some sort of paranoid ideas, but they do it bit differently.

    Ne is more about some single things. like this ENFP girl i met friday got really drunk, then even more drunk, later she nearly could even walk. later she snapped bit out of it and started suspecting that someone put some date rape drug in her drink. i kinda doubt that because she really was THAT drunk long before she could barely even walk. not to mention that we werent in a bar and pretty much everyone were friends or friends of friends, the situation wasnt that rape friendly, so why would someone try to do that?

    Ni paranoia is more about living in your own little paranoid world where everything fits together in non realistic way. me and my INFP friend joke about our INTJ friend how he is living in some reality of his own and has very little understanding about how world really works, he just sees Te facts everywhere and forms an understanding about the world based only on those, missing the true deeper understanding of the outer world and how it works. the same sort of thinking that leads to living in his own reality, is same that can lead to paranoid world view.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #26
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    can't speak for the other users, but I don't ever have thoughts like that. it would be nice if I did sometimes actually.
    I have some of those thoughts in a way, but others never occur to me either. I mostly wonder if I come across as stupid or tersely rude or whatever. It's more a wondering of how I appear, not how I made someone feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i think both Ni and Ne tend to give some sort of paranoid ideas, but they do it bit differently.
    I can agree with this. I tend to not see Ne as paranoid so much as indecisive or confused due to paralysis of too many ideas. To get out of this, simply engaging their Ji evaluation should work.

    I think that inferior or tert Si plays a part in this also. At least for myself, the tendency to hone in on the negative possibilities is often related to bad past experience, which convince me that the future will play out the same way (negatively) and to think positively is to be naive. In a way, I think the Ne user is not using their Ne enough.

    Ne is more about some single things. like this ENFP girl i met friday got really drunk, then even more drunk, later she nearly could even walk. later she snapped bit out of it and started suspecting that someone put some date rape drug in her drink. i kinda doubt that because she really was THAT drunk long before she could barely even walk. not to mention that we werent in a bar and pretty much everyone were friends or friends of friends, the situation wasnt that rape friendly, so why would someone try to do that?
    I see this as a Ne-dom getting creative to not take responsibility for her actions. I think this is a conscious decision to manipulate people's perceptions of a situation, not an actual paranoia on their part. But then, I was not there. It just sounds like something Ne-doms I've known would do to cover their butt. Oh yeah, Se-doms do it also....

    Ni paranoia is more about living in your own little paranoid world where everything fits together in non realistic way. me and my INFP friend joke about our INTJ friend how he is living in some reality of his own and has very little understanding about how world really works, he just sees Te facts everywhere and forms an understanding about the world based only on those, missing the true deeper understanding of the outer world and how it works. the same sort of thinking that leads to living in his own reality, is same that can lead to paranoid world view.
    This is what makes Ni-dom paranoia seem so thoroughly irrational & deluded to me. It's an entire viewpoint, consistent within itself, but with no anchor to reality (Se-tarded, you might call it).

    The thing with Ne is, it IS perceiving reality, it can just become indecisive about which real world possibility makes the most sense (some Ji judgment needs to come into play; something to filter out the silly stuff). I see that happening more with a Ne-dom than JiNe type. INPs may cling to a paranoid perception IF it supports some Ti/Fi judgment though. That's where you get the INP conspiracy theorists, and part of that seems inferior Je also (only pulling external "facts" which support their existing ideas).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  7. #27
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Paranoia would have to be a judging function... Wouldn't it? I mean in order for you to be paranoid you have to believe that these perceptions are true and that means making a judgement. Perception just allows you to choose from a certain gambit of choices.

  8. #28
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    All types can be paranoid.
    Oh, its
    You
    ....

  9. #29
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    you can go to a mental hospital or a psychiatrist's office and you'll find Ne types just like Ni types. i know them! (intps, infps, enfps with mental health issues) it seems absurd to think that extroverted perceivers have privileged access to "reality." they are more aware of the moment as they experience it as an event, but that moment can distort just as badly as it can for Ni. positive feedback loops happen in a wide variety of ways and aren't solely restricted to the top-down style Pi confirmation bias. and everything is a cognitive construction regardless of how you process the world and what registers in your attention as those complex processes are happening.

  10. #30
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    Paranoia would have to be a judging function... Wouldn't it?
    no
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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