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  1. #1
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Default Cutting Through The Bullshit

    I wonder how common this is for ENFP's.

    Most of the time I can be a very understanding, nurturing, sensitive person. In the last few years however, I've seen my personality shift a bit. Actually, other people have mentioned it to me and that is what has got me thinking.. how common is this for ENFP's?

    What it really boils down to, is that I sometimes get tired of walking on eggshells and comforting people who refuse to understand just how many of there problems are self-created. I'm not an exception to this at all.. but for along time now when I do have probs, after I let the emotions blow over and what-not, it almost always comes back to something I can control, or change. I believe each person is the captain of their destiny, and really hate wasting time jusitfying how I, or anyone else is a hopeless victim of circumstance. This mindset has caused me to become rather impatient with *certain people* .. with little tolerance for emotional wallowing, or what I see as an ignoring of the real problem.

    I often feel compelled to be brutally honest with those closest to me. I see this honesty as being sooo much more valueable than making them feel warm and fuzzy. I see it as sincere, and I do it because I care for these people. I care so much, infact, that I'm not going to bullshit them and tell them they are not fat, that the D- on a term paper wasn't fair, that gettind dumped was totally on the other person, so they can continue on making the same mistakes. Yet as much as I see this brutally honest, or direct responce as a sign of caring, it tends to come off as "cruel" or "insensitive" at times, no matter how soft I try to convey it.

    Do any of you other ENFP's struggle to find a balance with this?
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

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    I've been this way since I was in high school, and especially since my early 20's.

    It's funny because as a child I was more meek and non-confrontational. I remember my cousin calling me a sissy, and crying over stuff all the time, and being too timid to fight back when people picked on me. Then I hit puberty.

    I think brutal honesty is tough love. Typically when I'm fake to get by socially it's for tactical Te reasons (i.e. self-preservation) because I prefer to be sincere, whether that's sincerely loving or sincerely telling you where to get off.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    I had sort of an opposite experience lol. I was like a gentle defender type before puberty... really moved by injustice... suffered from kitten/tiger syndrome... the I hit puberty and became really frank and kind of aggressive. Then I mellowed out a lot in high school. I think both ends of the spectrum are immature and impractical. I try to be gentle but firm with others, and strict with myself because I know I can take it. Sometimes I think I should be tougher than I am with other people, and I what I think isn't ever as nice as what i say, but with others I think it's better to err on the side of too gentle. You'll regret it less later, and when you absolutely HAVE to be firm you'll probably be taken more seriously than if you're brutal all the time...
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

  4. #4
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I wonder how common this is for ENFP's.

    Most of the time I can be a very understanding, nurturing, sensitive person. In the last few years however, I've seen my personality shift a bit. Actually, other people have mentioned it to me and that is what has got me thinking.. how common is this for ENFP's?

    What it really boils down to, is that I sometimes get tired of walking on eggshells and comforting people who refuse to understand just how many of there problems are self-created. I'm not an exception to this at all.. but for along time now when I do have probs, after I let the emotions blow over and what-not, it almost always comes back to something I can control, or change. I believe each person is the captain of their destiny, and really hate wasting time jusitfying how I, or anyone else is a hopeless victim of circumstance. This mindset has caused me to become rather impatient with *certain people* .. with little tolerance for emotional wallowing, or what I see as an ignoring of the real problem.

    I often feel compelled to be brutally honest with those closest to me. I see this honesty as being sooo much more valueable than making them feel warm and fuzzy. I see it as sincere, and I do it because I care for these people. I care so much, infact, that I'm not going to bullshit them and tell them they are not fat, that the D- on a term paper wasn't fair, that gettind dumped was totally on the other person, so they can continue on making the same mistakes. Yet as much as I see this brutally honest, or direct responce as a sign of caring, it tends to come off as "cruel" or "insensitive" at times, no matter how soft I try to convey it.

    Do any of you other ENFP's struggle to find a balance with this?

    Nf here. I agree with the bold letters. I had felt that way before. few people I know have that cycle or complaining and not doing anything about it. this is exhausting to both my emotions and time. I placed limits on how far I get involved in matters and tend to be direct. if they take to take their own approach and try to restore things, I will stick around and listen, as well as help where I may. if they continue to allow the matter to go on. I just leave. cutting through the bull shit, Is my MO. I prefer being straight forward with everything. being so allows me to move on to other things that need to be taken care of, it even prevents something from escalating and getting worse. deal with it quickly is my approach

    I have been labeled unkind due to this though. Im looking for the balance of keeping to the truth of things but tactfully.

  5. #5
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I often feel compelled to be brutally honest with those closest to me. I see this honesty as being sooo much more valueable than making them feel warm and fuzzy. I see it as sincere, and I do it because I care for these people. I care so much, infact, that I'm not going to bullshit them and tell them they are not fat, that the D- on a term paper wasn't fair, that gettind dumped was totally on the other person, so they can continue on making the same mistakes. Yet as much as I see this brutally honest, or direct responce as a sign of caring, it tends to come off as "cruel" or "insensitive" at times, no matter how soft I try to convey it.

    Do any of you other ENFP's struggle to find a balance with this?

    Although I'm not an ENFP, I would like to offer a different side of P.O.V.

    This is actually one of the reasons why I try not to confront any personal issue with ENFPs. First of all, and no offence, I often felt it's rather unfair for putting your own standard to others especially when they are in emotional distress or just want to vent "if" you do consider them as close friends. This actually happened to me before and it didn't turn out to be good, and I felt being treated exactly as what you had mentioned.

    The problem of this has to do with most ENFPs often creates this illusion of they can always be supportive when needed because afterall, they are people's people. Furthermore, their easygoingness also mislead many people that they are generally more than happy to get through your problems as this serves as a perfect gateway for them to explore people deeply as they are always curious in people.

    Unfortunately, being a problem solver even fir the same people eventually worn them out because at that point, an ENFP already knows you inside out and thus helping you to solve the same issue quickly bores them and eventually leads them to frustration.

    In return, this often surprise and overwhelm to those people who had been opening up to them because they expect you will be there for them. All out of a sudden the cold treatment and bluntness came out of no where further hurt those people who had once earned your trust by revealing their private issues to you. Remember, opening up isnt as easy as for other Ixxx because to us, it automatically invites the door of vulnerabiliy.

    You guys are lucky enough (as well as INTJs and ISFPs) to deal with your own insecurities and heartaches internally. I would, or I'm sure anyone would rather want to deal with their own personal dilemmas on their own. Sadly, not all can achieve this and I'm one of them. Having a strong Fe can be extremely difficult for us to not let it voiced out whenever I'm facing a emotional meltdown.

    In fact, I know how difficult it is to be patience when a person complains to you repeatedly without putting any action on it. But I can certainly be patient enough for those I cared as I do set a limit to who I'm willing to consider them as important and genuine friends. So it will never drain me out as they are the people who I'm willing to accommodate their needs whenever they needed.

    So what I'm saying is, here comes a price for trying to make everybody happy without "sharing" your inner-judgment on people. I swear I've seen quite a few ENFPs complaining to me about others not taking the proper actions BUT never reveal directly in front of them in person. I know most ENFPs have good intention of maintaining a harmonious environment but I felt they cab also be too hard on others to make others to follow their expectations without even hinting beforehand. And I also considered dropping a cold bomb out of no where in the middle of serious heart-to-heart talk can be quit shocking and unethical to most people whose mind weren't even at a healthy stage.

  6. #6
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Btw I love ENFPs. The reason why I'm posting this is because I hope other ENFPs will be able to realize that it can be difficult for certain people to see and accept the two sides of extremity of personalties from you.

  7. #7
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I do this, I'm not sure it helps anything. It probably seems insensitive, but I guess I don't really know what the difference is between having an opinion and expressing it non verbally (in action, in how I treat someone) and just coming out and saying it. I guess also one of the things I've always wished more from other peoople is straight forward honesty, I spend too much time wondering what other people are thinking. I guess I tend to think of it as a service by just letting loose.

    There's a time for comfort, but when it comes to problems, eventually you just have identifying them and tackle them head on.

  8. #8
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Te rising

    yeah though. it's why we're "inspirers", i think, and not "healers". we have patience to help people heal but we also want to see them to pick their goddamned asses up and go be happy again. it's hard to decide sometimes whether to nurture or to boot.

    i appreciate what crescent fresh said, i see how it could certainly be confusing to someone else. i've been told before that i tend to judge people without telling them - that's true. i notice that this is markedly different from my Fe user friends, who are more clear about when they disapprove of someone or someone's behavior. personally i don't feel like it's really fair of me to voice my judgments to others, since it's just my opinion - or at least, i can't figure out when would be an appropriate time or way to do it. i'm not good at social distancing like Fe users are. but it is my right to act based off my own opinion, so if i choose to be blunt, it's not about me putting my standards on them, it's about me needing to follow my own standards. like i might not tell you that i don't approve of the way you're behaving, but i'm certainly not going to accept when you invite me to join you. i guess that bluntness probably seems like it comes out of nowhere, but up until that invitation, my opinion wasn't asked.

    what i'm getting at, is that i think there's a major element of self-preservation in being blunt like that. it makes sense, function-wise - our tertiary (Te) plays the "relief" role, supporting us when our two main functions can't address the issue at hand. i see this come in majorly IRL when i tend to overextend myself to help others from time to time, which is fine when they are appreciative of the help, but sometimes i discover that it has gone from me offering to the other person taking too much from me, and then i have to retreat because otherwise i'll be totally burnt out. i guess you could say i shouldn't extend myself to that point, but sometimes that overextension is exactly what is needed in the situation... we inspire because we help people see beyond boundaries, and sometimes that requires pushing our own boundaries.

    for example -

    (1a) i stay up all night encouraging someone in writing a paper they've been convinced they're going to fail, and they do really well on it. if it hadn't been for me throwing in my all, they probably would have chucked it at 2 am and given up - but they didn't because i was there encouraging them, and now they've grown more confident in their abilities and can proceed forward themselves. that's excellent. this is a real situation that's happened more than once and it's quite rewarding for both me and the other person.

    (1b) but then, what if i stay up all night encouraging someone in writing a paper they've been convinced they're going to fail, and they seem really enthusiastic about it, and finally i toddle off to bed at 7 am when they say they're putting the last touches on it, and i wake up 3 hours later and go about the rest of my day happy and tired but that afternoon they tell me that they didn't turn it in on time. (sadly, also a true story). that's when i tend to get pissed. on one hand, your paper, your life, your decisions, and my decision to volunteer my help - on the other hand, i put in all this work for you... and you threw it away. if you won't let me help you, then you should have told me from the beginning, because i entered into the whole project with the assumption that we're aiming for the collaborative goal of you getting that paper in and done well. i feel betrayed and taken advantage of, and that's when i get blunt.

    (2) or another example, a friend of mine kept having these 3-hour-long discussions with me on facebook, because she kept acting very promiscuous and leading guys on, and then getting scared and being very upset and confused when they would want her to have sex with them. and i'd try to explain that the way she was acting was leading them on, and she'd be like okay well what should i do differently, and i would explain, and then the next night she'd go out and act the same way she did in the first place. over and over again. eventually i got angry and just told her that if she was going to ignore my advice anyway that i had no interest in talking to her about it anymore... don't maintain the illusion that you're interested in my advice if you're not going to at least try it...

    so yeah. self-preservation. i get blunt when i realize that someone is being a drain on me, instead of a worthwhile source to direct my energy towards that will eventually reciprocate that energy.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    Btw I love ENFPs. The reason why I'm posting this is because I hope other ENFPs will be able to realize that it can be difficult for certain people to see and accept the two sides of extremity of personalties from you.
    I think what you're complaining about specifically is Te. Te is like "okay, look, here is what you should do." It's funny that as an ENFP I'm actually sometimes comforted by TJs who give me options of things I could actually *do* to solve my problems. On the other hand, I've experienced the same thing as you...most recently with someone Si/Te/Fi/Ne (who insists on calling himself ISFJ though I'm pretty damn sure he has no Fe) because I was in a bad situation and he just started going off one night like basically making me feel bad for not doing something to remove myself from the situation, told me I was being naive...his intentions were good, he did it partly because he cares about me and didn't want to see me fucked over, but on the other hand it stressed me out that he was demanding I *do* something when I simply did not have the means (financially) to extricate myself from the messy situation. We got into an argument because of it, but then got over the next day, and my deflection was like, hey, sure yeah, you give me the money and I'll *do* that right away, sir. That's a total Te/Fi explosion he had on me, because he was outraged over his personal feelings/values and throwing what he saw as an efficient Te solution at it.

    So I can understand where you're coming from when you say it can hurt if an ENFP does this, when you're not used to them acting like a TJ 24/7 then all of a sudden they go irate Fi/Te TJ on your ass, becoming outraged and/or demanding you *do* this or that.

    I've had to learn to keep my mouth shut in some situations and not dispense advice because I realized the person just needed to vent and wanted me to listen.

    On the other hand, I think the Te "foot up ye olde ass" is what people need from time to time.

  10. #10
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