[Fi] How do you successfully compliment an Fi-dom?

[INTPness]

Fi just seems like such a different world. You people tend to be much less needful of other people's validation of yourself or your feelings, whereas Fe uses other people to mirror back who they are so they can make adjustments (or decide things are fine as is). Because it's an extraverted function, we truly can't do that alone.

It's not that I expect someone to compliment me back when I compliment them. It's just that somehow the kind of conversation you describe is like putting yourself out there and declaring your love for someone and then them just saying, "Thanks" and turning away. It's not that you say I love you for an expression of their undying love, but rather that the response (to Fe) is the only way we get a good sense of the temperature. If we were to respond in the sort of manner you describe, we are refraining from saying something negative by saying nothing at all or very little or we feel terribly uncomfortable/distressed. Therefore, what sounds to you Saturn like your friend fishing for compliments, is just them looking for reassurance that it was okay with you for them to be that vulnerable. When you say very little back, it is perceived as us having messed up. By asking further, I would guess your friend is trying to figure out if that is truly the case or not and if so, where they went wrong by trying to get further response.

This was an issue of contention with an ESTJ and I. If I ever stated something that I appreciated about him, he'd make a big joke of it, or just say smugly, "I know". I finally told him (after two years!) that I felt stupid for even expressing anything to him. Because I don't compliment or appreciate someone insincerely and because it takes some vulnerability, it felt like a rejection of me every time he said "I know" or made it into a joke. Similarly, there was NEVER any spontaneous expression of "I really like this about you" or "I like it when you do this for me", leaving me feeling unsure if I was even a necessary part of the relationship or not. He just said he'd let me know if something was wrong. To me, it is already too late by then. I want to know BEFORE I've failed, not after.

I realize now that he just didn't know what to say back and that he also didn't have the need for mirroring back in that sense, as I did. Similarly, I missed that his Te statements of what he was going to do were actually requests for me to mirror back what I thought about it. Because I never voice anything until I'm pretty sure about what I think, I assumed he was the same. He thought it was obvious that he was looking for some feedback, while I thought he was just informing me of the course of action he had chosen.

I think I could have avoided a lot of problems if I had understood some of these basic differences in our personalities before. On the other hand, I don't know if I could deal with not getting that kind of feedback on a regular basis, nor being allowed to give it.

Fidelia, you summed up my thoughts quite well here. Even though my Fe is puny compared to yours, it still rings true. In a past relationship, I would compliment my Fi-ex and she would just say "thanks". I guess it would be similar if an ENTP started telling a really cool Ne story and the other person was just like, "Whatever. That's cool." I don't know - I got to a point where it was like I just wasn't getting anything back and so it's like why even say anything anymore? Why even compliment them at all? I mean, my compliments were never fake - they were always real - I just loved the girl and I wanted to let her know. I can see how one person's "not enough" is another person's "too much", but I mean, if I can't get anything back from you - I start feeling like maybe I should just leave you to yourself and see you next week. It's like you said - you start thinking, "Hmmmm...did I mess up? Did I say something wrong? Maybe she's not feeling good and just doesn't want to talk? What is it?"

So, yeah, when Fi doesn't say much, the Fe user sometimes might feel like, "Oh well, I guess I just won't use Fe with this person anymore. We just won't let each other know how we feel - we won't communicate on that level - we'll just stay to ourselves." If she's going to stay quiet, then so will I. Cuz, in the long run, I can't keep expressing affection and compliments and love and all those things if I just get "Thanks" in return. Instead, I'll just shut down Fe and we just won't talk about those things. It's gotta be a 2-way street, mutual communication.

Edit: And I don't say "I'll shut down my Fe" as a way to punish the Fi user. It's just that nothing is being reciprocated so I feel like I'm a broken record - always expressing myself, while nothing is said back. So, it's like "why bother?"

 

[INTPness]

Yeah, I'm trying to lose weight, myself. Personally, I would prefer a well-crafted compliment.

You look dazzling in your wrestling mask. Do you have matching bottoms?

 

[RDF]

Fidelia, you summed up my thoughts quite well here. Even though my Fe is puny compared to yours, it still rings true. In a past relationship, I would compliment my Fi-ex and she would just say "thanks". I guess it would be similar if an ENTP started telling a really cool Ne story and the other person was just like, "Whatever. That's cool." I don't know - I got to a point where it was like I just wasn't getting anything back and so it's like why even say anything anymore? Why even compliment them at all? I mean, my compliments were never fake - they were always real - I just loved the girl and I wanted to let her know. I can see how one person's "not enough" is another person's "too much", but I mean, if I can't get anything back from you - I start feeling like maybe I should just leave you to yourself and see you next week. It's like you said - you start thinking, "Hmmmm...did I mess up? Did I say something wrong? Maybe she's not feeling good and just doesn't want to talk? What is it?"

So, yeah, when Fi doesn't say much, the Fe user sometimes might feel like, "Oh well, I guess I just won't use Fe with this person anymore. We just won't let each other know how we feel - we won't communicate on that level - we'll just stay to ourselves." If she's going to stay quiet, then so will I. Cuz, in the long run, I can't keep expressing affection and compliments and love and all those things if I just get "Thanks" in return. Instead, I'll just shut down Fe and we just won't talk about those things. It's gotta be a 2-way street, mutual communication.

Edit: And I don't say "I'll shut down my Fe" as a way to punish the Fi user. It's just that nothing is being reciprocated so I feel like I'm a broken record - always expressing myself, while nothing is said back. So, it's like "why bother?"

To be honest, I agree. As a relationship ages, INFP can strip down interactions to the point where they are communicating only what they themselves deem essential. And since serious stuff is considered more important than frivolous stuff, it can result in an INFP exuding kind of an angry, punitive vibe all the time. I’ve done it myself, and I’ve had other INFPs do it to me. INFPs need to remember to lighten up, that others need some fluff feedback at times.

You look dazzling in your wrestling mask. Do you have matching bottoms?

Thank you very much, I’m flattered. To answer your question: Absolutely. Us Mexican wrestlers are always very fashion-conscious.

Love your well-groomed coat and menacing canines. Hang onto that roll of toilet paper till you get everything that’s coming to you.

 

[INTPness]

To be honest, I agree. As a relationship ages, INFP can strip down interactions to the point where they are communicating only what they themselves deem essential. And since serious stuff is considered more important than frivolous stuff, it can result in an INFP exuding kind of an angry, punitive vibe all the time. I’ve done it myself, and I’ve had other INFPs do it to me. INFPs need to remember to lighten up, that others need some fluff feedback at times.



Thank you very much, I’m flattered. To answer your question: Absolutely. Us Mexican wrestlers are always very fashion-conscious.

Love your well-groomed coat and menacing canines. Hang onto that roll of toilet paper till you get everything that’s coming to you.

Haha. Thank you for reciprocating my Fe with such wonderful compliments. I love you.

 

[Viridian]

Fi just seems like such a different world. You people tend to be much less needful of other people's validation of yourself or your feelings, whereas Fe uses other people to mirror back who they are so they can make adjustments (or decide things are fine as is). Because it's an extraverted function, we truly can't do that alone.

It's not that I expect someone to compliment me back when I compliment them. It's just that somehow the kind of conversation you describe is like putting yourself out there and declaring your love for someone and then them just saying, "Thanks" and turning away. It's not that you say I love you for an expression of their undying love, but rather that the response (to Fe) is the only way we get a good sense of the temperature. If we were to respond in the sort of manner you describe, we are refraining from saying something negative by saying nothing at all or very little or we feel terribly uncomfortable/distressed. Therefore, what sounds to you Saturn like your friend fishing for compliments, is just them looking for reassurance that it was okay with you for them to be that vulnerable. When you say very little back, it is perceived as us having messed up. By asking further, I would guess your friend is trying to figure out if that is truly the case or not and if so, where they went wrong by trying to get further response.

This was an issue of contention with an ESTJ and I. If I ever stated something that I appreciated about him, he'd make a big joke of it, or just say smugly, "I know". I finally told him (after two years!) that I felt stupid for even expressing anything to him. Because I don't compliment or appreciate someone insincerely and because it takes some vulnerability, it felt like a rejection of me every time he said "I know" or made it into a joke. Similarly, there was NEVER any spontaneous expression of "I really like this about you" or "I like it when you do this for me", leaving me feeling unsure if I was even a necessary part of the relationship or not. He just said he'd let me know if something was wrong. To me, it is already too late by then. I want to know BEFORE I've failed, not after.

I realize now that he just didn't know what to say back and that he also didn't have the need for mirroring back in that sense, as I did. Similarly, I missed that his Te statements of what he was going to do were actually requests for me to mirror back what I thought about it. Because I never voice anything until I'm pretty sure about what I think, I assumed he was the same. He thought it was obvious that he was looking for some feedback, while I thought he was just informing me of the course of action he had chosen.

I think I could have avoided a lot of problems if I had understood some of these basic differences in our personalities before. On the other hand, I don't know if I could deal with not getting that kind of feedback on a regular basis, nor being allowed to give it.

I actually relate quite a lot to what you write, fidelia, though it does bring up a conundrum... If Fe users are attuned to others' feelings and needs, why do they need that sort of constant reassurance? I kinda need it on account of feeling somewhat obstrusive...

(That was a serious question. I do not mean to tease.)

EDIT - PS: As of this post, I'm a puzzled IxFx.

 

[Anew Leaf]

To be honest, Fe leaves me feeling extremely inadequate at times. I try hard to accept compliments, to give compliments, to show my love for people... And sometimes it's still not enough. That's my main frustration.

The example I gave was an exaggerated made up scenario, but it's kind of how I feel at times. The same amount of emotion should not be required for when I help someone move a chair, as it is when I make something for them by hand.

What you say makes sense, fidelia. I'm just not sure there is a magical solution between the two.

 

[INTPness]

What you say makes sense, fidelia. I'm just not sure there is a magical solution between the two.

Probably just like any of the other functions. No 2 are quite alike and that's why there is always some level of misunderstandings between all people.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Tell them how cute their cat is.

 

[gromit]

I give compliments, I like to do it, just sometimes receiving can be hard if it doesn't ring true. I just try to match the other person's level of enthusiasm when they say it.

 

[wolfy]

There is this isfp description that says isfp give compliments when they are getting to know you. I do do that actually. The best way to compliment me is with cash donations, physical touch and praising my ability.

For example, if someone reps "You're great at posting *high five emoticon* "I wish you lived closer, I'd buy you a beer" That'd make my day.

 

[skylights]

Fe (theoretically) seems like a burden to me sometimes. even though it's easy and essentially second nature in real life, theoretically, i don't wanna have to come up with an answer to a compliment... 0_x;

oh, but to the OP. i like (genuinely) complimenting INFPs and watching them squirm and blush.

the couple of ISFPs i know, i've never noticed them getting very squirmy.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Fe (theoretically) seems like a burden to me sometimes. even though it's easy and essentially second nature in real life, theoretically, i don't wanna have to come up with an answer to a compliment... 0_x;

oh, but to the OP. i like (genuinely) complimenting INFPs and watching them squirm and blush.

the couple of ISFPs i know, i've never noticed them getting very squirmy.

I blush at the drop of a hat.

 

[Southern Kross]

Fi just seems like such a different world. You people tend to be much less needful of other people's validation of yourself or your feelings, whereas Fe uses other people to mirror back who they are so they can make adjustments (or decide things are fine as is). Because it's an extraverted function, we truly can't do that alone.

It's not that I expect someone to compliment me back when I compliment them. It's just that somehow the kind of conversation you describe is like putting yourself out there and declaring your love for someone and then them just saying, "Thanks" and turning away. It's not that you say I love you for an expression of their undying love, but rather that the response (to Fe) is the only way we get a good sense of the temperature. If we were to respond in the sort of manner you describe, we are refraining from saying something negative by saying nothing at all or very little or we feel terribly uncomfortable/distressed. Therefore, what sounds to you Saturn like your friend fishing for compliments, is just them looking for reassurance that it was okay with you for them to be that vulnerable. When you say very little back, it is perceived as us having messed up. By asking further, I would guess your friend is trying to figure out if that is truly the case or not and if so, where they went wrong by trying to get further response.

This was an issue of contention with an ESTJ and I. If I ever stated something that I appreciated about him, he'd make a big joke of it, or just say smugly, "I know". I finally told him (after two years!) that I felt stupid for even expressing anything to him. Because I don't compliment or appreciate someone insincerely and because it takes some vulnerability, it felt like a rejection of me every time he said "I know" or made it into a joke. Similarly, there was NEVER any spontaneous expression of "I really like this about you" or "I like it when you do this for me", leaving me feeling unsure if I was even a necessary part of the relationship or not. He just said he'd let me know if something was wrong. To me, it is already too late by then. I want to know BEFORE I've failed, not after.

I realize now that he just didn't know what to say back and that he also didn't have the need for mirroring back in that sense, as I did. Similarly, I missed that his Te statements of what he was going to do were actually requests for me to mirror back what I thought about it. Because I never voice anything until I'm pretty sure about what I think, I assumed he was the same. He thought it was obvious that he was looking for some feedback, while I thought he was just informing me of the course of action he had chosen.

I think I could have avoided a lot of problems if I had understood some of these basic differences in our personalities before. On the other hand, I don't know if I could deal with not getting that kind of feedback on a regular basis, nor being allowed to give it.

Its nice that you really want to show appreciation for others and to adapt your behaviour to suit their function needs. I wouldn't want an INFJ to get the impression that compliments are bad or inappropriate, or that such efforts are not appreciated. I do feel bad sometimes that I struggle give Fe users what they want or need in return.

The main reason I struggle to accept compliments is that they make me feel so vulnerable. I can't fully explain why but it takes apart all that composure that I've got to great lengths to exude. I don't just think "oh that's nice", instead I'm concerned what they mean by it; I'm embarrassed by the attention (and am embarrassed about being embarrassed); I'm worried about looking vain or expectant of it; and I'm attempting to discern whether its justified or an exaggeration. All of this anxious, self-conscious, over-analytical thought is rather overwhelming and in the panic my instinctive response is often simply deflection or denial. Later on I may appreciate what was said, but in the moment I find all that earnestness directed toward me to be terrifying and disconcerting

It weird that we both Fe and Fi feel vulnerable in that a moment but in such different ways

 

[Fidelia]

So in other words, it just sets off a storm of other possibilities and thoughts that make it difficult for you to act in the moment, just like we feel put on the spot when asked to articulate Ti thoughts in the heat of a discussion without time to mull first?

I can understand that feeling and why it may be unpleasant or at least uncomfortable.

 

[Fidelia]

To be honest, Fe leaves me feeling extremely inadequate at times. I try hard to accept compliments, to give compliments, to show my love for people... And sometimes it's still not enough. That's my main frustration.

The example I gave was an exaggerated made up scenario, but it's kind of how I feel at times. The same amount of emotion should not be required for when I help someone move a chair, as it is when I make something for them by hand.

What you say makes sense, fidelia. I'm just not sure there is a magical solution between the two.

Aw, I'm sorry about that too! I've heard more than one Fi user express those sentiments. I guess I've been pondering how Fe and Fi can co-exist in a fulfilling happy way in a close relationship too.

 

[entropie]

Fi-doms dont need excuses

 

[RDF]

Oh well, I'm just wrapping up here. Just to make a comparison:

At it’s horrifying worst, Fe can sound like “The Goofy Gophers” of LoonyToons fame (see links below). Fe can sound glib and prattling and cheerleader-ish. Better-targeted, more thoughtful compliments might help.

Gopher Broke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1USpOjzqik
Two Gophers from Texas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhY93UsC0I

OTOH, I fully realize that Fi can be horribly deficient when it comes to maintaining relationships. We Fi types are better at loving mankind from a distance than from close up. Even when we try to be whimsical and fluffy, it comes out ostentatious and self-centered: “Watch me fart a rainbow for you!” Many of us Fi types could stand to demonstrate more awareness of the other person: “I love what you’re doing with that! Tell me more about it!”

As for compliments, there’s an old ettiquette rule that when you receive a compliment, you’re supposed to thank the person and then give them one right back. Like Christmas cards. I know it seems kind of mechanical, but as I grow older I can increasingly see the use of these little courtesy rules.

Anyway, when I get stuck for a return compliment, I think of the lyrics of an old song by T Rex called “The Motivator.” It basically just inventories a person’s attributes and comes up with odd little poetic comparisons. It’s just a little reminder for me: Compliments don’t need to be big, and they don’t need to make perfect sense. They just need to show that you checked the other person out, you're acknowledging them, and that maybe you have a little poetry in your soul. It's not going to work for everyone, but it works for me.

The Motivator

I love the way you walk
Don't you know you're
a cool motivator
Love the way you walk
Love the way you walk

I love the way your eye
It doth shine like
an Egyptian ruby
Love the way it shines
Love the way it shines
Shine on

I love the clothes you wear
They're so mean they're so free
they're so handsome
Love the clothes you wear
Love the clothes you wear

I love the broken crown
The one you stole from the King
and held for ransom
Love the broken crown
Love the broken crown
I love it

I love the golden cat
You know the one that you
keep in your bedroom
Love the golden cat
Love the golden cat

I love the velvet hat
You know the one that
caused a revolution
Love the velvet hat
Love the velvet hat
I love it

 

[skylights]

Aw, I'm sorry about that too! I've heard more than one Fi user express those sentiments. I guess I've been pondering how Fe and Fi can co-exist in a fulfilling happy way in a close relationship too.

actually. it occurs to me that ENFJ bff and i don't compliment one another much, not directly. usually i'll compliment a thing of hers, and she'll joke about being jealous of something of mine, but we don't do real compliments very much. i think we end up demonstrating appreciation for one another in other ways... being supportive, in particular. we both acknowledge our own strong points and the other's strong points and use them to help the other. i think people might wonder about our relationship from the outside though, we're not always very conventionally "nice"...



i guess my point being that sometimes i think it's easier when we skate over stuff like that and just sort of get to the heart of the F matter, which is appreciating one another. i feel like our relationship is a lot of delicate nonverbal communication of understanding. NFs are complicated!

 

[wolfy]

I was thinking about this on the way home... I'm maybe a bit iffy on being complimented. Praise is pretty addictive. I think the stick is easier to bear than having the carrot taken away. What do you think?

 

[INTPness]

Gopher Broke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1USpOjzqik
Two Gophers from Texas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhY93UsC0I

LOL. How sad that Fi users see Fe users in this light. Although it's insightful to watch - it shows me that it just feels overdone for you guys.

The hard part for the Fe user is that the only alternative is for the Fe user to just stop giving compliments/showing affection/being Fe (so as to not make the Fi user feel uncomfortable). So, then you have 2 partners who just don't verbalize any feeling. They just walk around thinking to themselves, "I really love that person over there. I'm just not going to tell them." So, you'll have 2 partners who are like, "Hey, did you rake the leaves in the front yard?" "Yes, I did. Are there any other chores to be done?" "Yes. Laundry." "OK, I'll go do it now." But, the whole time they're both feeling lots of inner emotion - it just never gets verbalized.

I can't speak for other Fe users, but for me it always felt like, "If you feel it, why not just say it." I see no good reason to hold it back or to NOT say it. Then again, I can relate to not always verbalizing Ti, so it's probably similar to that. I'd bet that 75-80% of Ti thoughts are never spoken.