User Tag List

First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 85

  1. #51
    nevermore lane777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    This is a good point. And a very good example too! I had the same problem during the first year or so of my relationship, and it took me a long time to learn that when my boyfriend sounds like he doesn't want to talk to me, it's just because he is tired or stressed out and it has nothing to do with me or the relationship. It's most likely that your INFJ feels somewhat responsible for the less-than-happy conversation and thinks she must be doing something wrong, or that you are mad at her, or you're no longer happy about being with her.

    It takes time -- perhaps quite a long time -- and a lot of reassurance that your tone of voice is NOT an indication of your level of interest before your INFJ will realize that this is really the case. I know this sounds stupid, but Ni + Fe is programmed to take into account all non-verbal signs as well, which includes tone of voice, choice of words, conversation flow, length of conversation, time of conversation, what you talked about in the last conversation, yes, everything, to make sure they understand all there is to understand. Taking things literally is very unnatural and a very foreign concept for INFJs. Over time, if your behavior is consistent, she will learn to trust you and understand that there is really NO hidden meaning.

    INFJs are very, very slow to open up, and very, very slow to trust. My boyfriend said this as well: "One little slip and you're that sad?" Well, the INFJ tends to interpret something like this as a sign that deep down you don't want to do what you have been doing so great for months, and the 'slip' is your 'true self' surfacing. And, of course, this leads to all sorts of crazy thoughts like how you might not be compatible or how she is trying to change you too much and will eventually make you unhappy or how it's not going to work.

    Wow, this post makes INFJs sound neurotic

    One thing I think I should mention is a little note on the Fe-language. If you mention right at the beginning of the phone call that you had a rough day and are tired she will tune in to that. (How does this work? This is Fe on your part anticipating that the felicity of the conversation will be affected and asking the other party to adjust. She will "adjust" to it by not taking the 'tired tone of voice' personally and paying more attention to comforting you and making sure you are happy. All this is natural for her, perhaps even unconscious. "Our happiness" is the goal, so if you can make her understand where you are coming from, you have created the "us" and she will do everything to make "us" happy)

    Similarly, if you have to say no to something, break your word, cannot spend time with her, or do anything that she will feel negatively about, make sure you tell her about the 'fix' immediately after the bad news. "I know we were supposed to go out tonight, but there's this report at work that needs finishing and my boss wants it now. So how about we do popcorn and dvd later instead? You get to pick the movie!" This shows consideration for the "us" and she'll be all sweet and loving when you get home
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Huge YESes to all of this!!!!!!!!
    Yeah I'll have to second that.
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

    INFJ ~ 4w5 sp/sx ~ RLOAI ~ Inclusion e/w=1/0 (Melancholy Compulsive) Control: e/w=0/6 (Supine) Affection: e/w=4/0 (Phlegmatic Melancholy)

  2. #52
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    903

    Default

    x 3

    So true, Ni + Fe has the horrible habit to see signs of impending doom everywhere, which doesn't really help to keep a clear head in a relationship.

  3. #53
    Member Tofu562's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    90

    Default

    I have awesome CD mixes thanks to an INFJ. Those of you with INFJ friends..! I implore you; get them to make you CDs!

  4. #54
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    ^Lol, love doing that for someone.

  5. #55
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    is it a surprise that Fe types can overreact to a situation based on relying on immediate, exterior factors? we don't have nearly as good of a sense of the overall story possibilities as p types. so signs can sometimes get taken out of context, especially under stress.

    at the same time, p types can sometimes be a bit manipulative by knowing how to manage the story so that they keep things that would change the infjs perspective quite drastically from the infj, because there's always a lot of ways of telling a story (to define the situation). this undermines our sense of problem-solving and autonomy, because emotional problem-solving and communication is what we are made to do (to harmonize interactions), and this is a big part of our senses of self. i don't know if this makes any sense, but i think j types merge with shared goals and p types merge with shared possibilities (things to explore). infjs like to explore people, but it's for a higher order goal, we want to participate in processes of personal growth (in a kind of efficient way).

    also, losing the ability to hear the whole of the situation and figure out where others are coming from happens with p types too tho when they overidentify with particular stories and feel like they need you to completely agree with their narrative or get upset. Fi can be especially difficult to predict and can definitely have plenty of surprising landmines for others based less on what those people do and more about what previous experience the Fi user has had and now rejects, which also needs to recognize that it is not the sole source of relevancy making or possibility navigating. but in the end, these problems are really just part of being human (and so many of the differences people experience in relationships have to do with their own autonomy and sense of self-sufficiency, their own senses of direction, their own past histories, and their own level of personal development). with that said, it does seem infjs will need to fucking communicate emotionally and feel that or they will struggle to manage their own fault lines. and in realizing that, many many pairings aren't going to work very well without a lot of local adjustment and health introduced in other ways (to kind of balance the expectations about romantic existence). but this will all vary according instinctual subtype, enneagram type, and gender (because male and female experiences are carved out so differently and tend to emphasize specific needs in various ways across the divide).

  6. #56
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in
    is it a surprise that Fe types can overreact to a situation based on relying on immediate, exterior factors? we don't have nearly as good of a sense of the overall story possibilities as p types. so signs can sometimes get taken out of context, especially under stress. [...]

    at the same time, p types can sometimes be a bit manipulative by knowing how to manage the story so that they keep things that would change the infjs perspective quite drastically from the infj, because there's always a lot of ways of telling a story (to define the situation). this undermines our sense of problem-solving and autonomy, because emotional problem-solving and communication is what we are made to do (to harmonize interactions), and this is a big part of our senses of self.
    wow. you just summed up and explained a lot of the communication problems i had in a relationship with an ENFJ.

    i didn't realize the managing of the story so drastically changed things for an NFJ. that's good to know. i tend to do that with information all the time to get it to meet the specific need i am using it for, and as such it just seems like second nature to me, and not a big deal.

  7. #57
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,692

    Default

    There’s a lot of stuff to comment on in this thread. These are just a couple things that stuck out to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Direction
    I remember reading somewhere a long time ago about how INFJs want the "perfect relationship" and they will end the relationship if it falls short of their ideals. At that time I thought it was totally not true. Over time, though, I started to realize they might be on to something. Once I think about it, I have to admit that I'm not very good at "enjoying the journey". I do enjoy the journey, but only as long as it leads somewhere. However, I don't have the concrete definitions of what a "perfect relationship" is either, except that ultimately we should be able to achieve that mutual understanding and growth. So, there is definitely room for adjustments. I think a lot of INFJs will end a relationship if we don't see it going anywhere, such as when we perceive that the other party is uncommunicative or unwilling to move towards mutual understanding. The problem is, sometimes we forget to tell people this, and perhaps sometimes we are not even really conscious of this need in ourselves. More concrete examples would be people who don't know what kind of life they want and cannot say if they want the same thing, people who after years are still unsure about the relationship and still talk about hypothetical future partners, people who seem to be trying to keep their options open without including the INFJ in the picture -- this is very threatening to the INFJ's sense of direction and they usually end up leaving because they see no happy ending at the end of the road.
    Along these^ lines, something in Lenore Thompson’s book that really struck a chord with me (in the INFJ section, p.249) was this:

    Like INTJs, INFJs have a tendency to use their secondary function for protection- for example, to distance themselves from a relationship that demands too much from them emotionally. They are entirely capable of meeting the expected surface demands of a situation, all the while nursing secret criticisms of a partner or a friend.

    INFJs need to watch that tendency, because as soon as they feel emotional distance, they begin to turn away and look for something new. Not that they will literally leave a committed relationship. They go through the motions of life, but inside the mind, they’ve mounted the dappled horses of imagination and are surveying inner kingdoms.
    This is OMG11!1 true for me. Little criticisms build up, only they don’t seem like little criticisms at the time- it’ll seem like I’m merely taking note of ‘differences in opinion’. INJs tend to see things as relative right off the bat- so before I even register it as a criticism, I simply register it’s a difference I should make note of. If the person I voice them to perceives it in any way petty or selfish- or if I even just anticipate it will be received that way- then I’ll probably accept that as a valid opinion if I respect the person. And the problem with this is it doesn’t go away. Things like that build up. Instead of demanding it not be seen as petty (which is repugnant to a lot of us, demanding our own opinion be considered valid by the other person in spite of their own opinion), we’ll just secretly keep it to ourselves and write it off as a difference of perspective. But these things add up- it’s more important than we realize in the moment to iron the difference out with the other person- it creates an emotional distance that builds up. If we don’t give the person a chance to iron the differences out before too much of a distance has built up, then the differences begin to feel irreconcilable. I’m not saying this is true for all of us, but I’ve definitely seen it in others as well as myself.

    It becomes emotionally taxing because our own opinion does not get enough weight in the relationship. We instinctively want to give the other person’s side weight, but get pissy and passive aggressive when this ‘courtesy’ is not returned. And it’s usually truly a matter of not recognizing that our own opinion is not being given much weight- or at least, an acceptance that the person is ‘just like that’. And initially it starts with the good intentions of wanting to give the other person freedom to have their own point of view, but it starts feeling like disrespect. It feels like ‘no big deal’ in the moment and it really seems like we’re letting it go (actually, for me, it feels like disappointment that the other person isn’t on the same page, but I don’t feel like I have a right to expect anything different). It’s just that we haven’t really gotten through to the other person how important it is to us (and often don’t recognize how important it is ourselves). It’s incredibly hard to voice because it’s built very slowly and over many, many smaller issues- yet it really is a big issue once it builds. And it often manifests by getting persnickety about *other* trivial things- which is why, when I read someone’s description of an INFJ getting ‘too upset’ about something they shouldn’t be so upset about, it usually seems to me like they’re seeing the tail end of an INFJ sweeping their own feelings under the rug (and it’s the consequence of that INFJ feeling taken for granted). [edit: I shouldn't say I think this is always the case- sometimes INFJs get 'too upset' because they're just mistaken about what they're upset about/*think* they're being taken for granted.]

    This is something that’s happened in both relationships I’ve been in as an adult- in my marriage, and in the eight year relationship I had afterward. I mean, this is something that’s even true with a few friendships. It’s a bad habit of letting emotional distance build for fear of being unreasonable. I’m not even sure I’m comfortable calling it “fear”. It just really seems to be a blind spot for INFJs, for some reason. If I could go back, I’d tell myself to at least say, “Well, it still makes me feel disrespected”- without being so concerned about whether the other person believed I had a right to feel that way or not. The more it builds up, the harder it is to go back and iron things out. I’ve had this emotional distance build up with several people because- in addition to not realizing it was important- I didn’t really know how to express it once it started feeling important (and didn’t know if I was important enough to them to even try). It’s incredibly hard to articulate while it’s happening. I just started slowly emotionally writing them off until I didn’t feel very close to them anymore.



    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Other Issues
    A lot of people have mentioned INFJs' "high standards/expectations" and how INFJs try to "change" or "fix" them. I think I have already included that in my three points, but I feel I should elaborate a little more.

    Actually it's not as much "high standards/expectations" as "growth", really -- and mutual growth at that. That's the only thing that matters. INFJs might seem pushy and judgy when something is not moving towards that growth, but I can assure you that with understanding, the judging is much, much less. So make sure you talk a lot and don't let conflicts go unresolved.
    Here’s the thing about having high expectations for those I get close to: I only get close to people whom I already see having high standards as well. It’s not like I get close to someone, then start imposing my high expectations. I find the idea of imposing my expectations on anyone- who doesn’t already expect such things from themselves and others- somewhat repulsive. So yes, I hold people I trust to a higher standard than most of the people who cross my path- but not a higher standard than the person upholds in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Vigilance
    INFJs are very guarded. There are layers and layers and layers of guardedness. We are also easily spooked and we over-analyze everything. Because we have our eyes on the ultimate connection, anything that threatens that will be spotted and immediately 'fixed'. Ni also partly tries to foresee trends, so for us, "little things" are indicative of hidden "big issues". For example, one time my friends and I were discussing make-up, and I said that ideally no one should feel like they have to put on make-up. A guy friend laughed and said "Oh, but some women really need make-up", and I found that comment very disturbing and I secretly questioned his respect for women in general. We fret over these seemingly little things, and again, most of the time we will not tell you about it unless we know you fairly well and trust you or until we have found more information to support or eradicate our doubt.
    Quote Originally Posted by CurlyJoe View Post
    Yes! I agree that INFJs are easily spooked and that they see trends in little things, but I struggle with this. As an ISTP, I also analyze things and see trends, but one or two data points do not make a trend.

    I feel that my INFJ girlfriend often overreacts. If I am unresponsive during a phone call and say that it's because I'm tired, she rarely takes that at face value. No, she has to read something else into it. There must be a problem in the relationship. I'm no longer interested. Whereas if she is unresponsive and says she is tired, I believe her and think nothing more of it. Only if it was repeated often would I look for other reasons.

    I can be on my best behavior for months, but if I do one thing wrong, she will still be spooked.

    Spending all of your time looking for hidden "big issues" may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    The thing about “be on my best behavior for months” is that there may be little things in that “best behavior” that the INFJ doesn’t consider “best behavior”, but the INFJ will be reluctant to say anything because- as I mentioned above- it’s relative. One thing that has struck me in this forum is that other INFJs consistently say they don’t like imposing their own ideals on other people. The relativity of ‘ideals’ truly is the very first thing that pops into our heads while evaluating how much something should bother us. And like I also mentioned, there’s a period of time after picking up on a problem where we’re busy in our heads trying to understand why little things make us feel disrespected. So when you do “one thing” wrong after months, I feel pretty confident saying that it isn’t the “one thing” in isolation. And it’s rarely entirely about possible future meanings- it’s likely a vague impression that has built up over time. Again, I can’t speak for all INFJs, but I know that I personally never freak out over possible future problems because of ‘one thing’- though ‘one thing’ may be the straw that broke the camel’s back and might make me express a concern about future things which has been building silently for a while.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  8. #58
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    we gotta know where you're coming from, trust you, and feel secure relationshipwise with you (depending on the goals we both have, tho ours tend to be more towards consistency/closure etc) in order to deal with this. otherwise we can easily feel like we are being controlled and manipulated. i think this might also be a tendency of p types (especially optimistic, active exxps) to just focus on finding positive outcomes whereas we j types can focus on obstacles that need to be addressed in order to reach a specific outcome (which we commit to more and as a result have less other possibilities on the backburner... tho again, this depends on what the person's ultimate purpose is and how a relationship fits into that). and you, as an sx type, also are focused on your positive outcomes first and foremost which can change quite suddenly and without warning (which is not a situation we are particularly well-equipped to deal with).

    enfjs probably, 3w4s especially, probably need less closeness and continual sharing than infjs. probably have a bit higher self-efficacy at managing their place in the social world, and probably have a bit more experience understanding relationship games. probably a bit better at predicting people, but probably worse at getting beyond those predictions and sharing all the unknowns. maybe nfj 4 related types are also worse if they feel rejected or slighted by the story's various editions and that abandonment fear starts creeping in.

  9. #59
    nevermore lane777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    And like I also mentioned, there’s a period of time after picking up on a problem where we’re busy in our heads trying to understand why little things make us feel disrespected. So when you do “one thing” wrong after months, I feel pretty confident saying that it isn’t the “one thing” in isolation. And it’s rarely entirely about possible future meanings- it’s likely a vague impression that has built up over time. Again, I can’t speak for all INFJs, but I know that I personally never freak out over possible future problems because of ‘one thing’- though ‘one thing’ may be the straw that broke the camel’s back and might make me express a concern about future things which has been building silently for a while.
    Curses! I hate the bolded, it's so true. When ever I finally decide it's necessary to address an issue between me and who ever, it's likely this problem has been going on for like a friggin year... which means by the time I've confronted them, I won't be able to recall specific examples of their offenses, which they will expect. I don't remember details, only impressions.

    Anyway, great paragraph. I completely relate.
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

    INFJ ~ 4w5 sp/sx ~ RLOAI ~ Inclusion e/w=1/0 (Melancholy Compulsive) Control: e/w=0/6 (Supine) Affection: e/w=4/0 (Phlegmatic Melancholy)

  10. #60
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lane777 View Post
    I don't remember details, only impressions.
    I know! It's infuriating! And I'm sure it's infuriating to deal with, too. It's just so incredibly hard to articulate once it feels important enough to say something.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

Similar Threads

  1. How to understand a strange relationship with an ENFP
    By Bellatrix in forum Intertype Relations
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-08-2017, 10:43 PM
  2. [ESTP] ESTPs: Ever been in a relationship with an INFJ?
    By Studmuffin23 in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-06-2015, 09:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO