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  1. #31
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    haha....most of them are not that bad. I just hate it when they can dish it out but not take it. That's the biggest flaws in most INFJs I've known, and the worse it is, the harder they are to bear.
    True... I think it depends on the maturity level of the person and how secure they feel...as other people have mentioned, it often times comes down to trust and how safe they feel....or if they're already insecure and have issues they need to work through on their own, then they're more difficult in general. But I think the very nature of an INFJ to constantly grow and improve themselves, as time goes on, the more mature they become, and the less "high-maintenance" they are, in general. Admittedly, the guidelines I posted are probably more in reference to INFJs who are a bit more on the immature/unhealthy side....and those who are more on the mature/healthy side probably aren't that bad.

    But you are right on when it comes to the "dish it out but can't take it sort of thing". I've noticed that with all of the INFJs I know. They're pretty good at pointing out what a person should change about themselves but when they are faced with the same feedback, they have a hard time hearing it. I think this has to do with the fact that most INFJs are keenly aware of their own faults/issues/shortcomings, etc... and they're already very hard on themselves...what they really need is unconditional support and understanding from people, not further confirmation that they're not living up to their own standards.
    The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen. ~ Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

  2. #32
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janea View Post
    But you are right on when it comes to the "dish it out but can't take it sort of thing". I've noticed that with all of the INFJs I know. They're pretty good at pointing out what a person should change about themselves but when they are faced with the same feedback, they have a hard time hearing it. I think this has to do with the fact that most INFJs are keenly aware of their own faults/issues/shortcomings, etc... and they're already very hard on themselves...what they really need is unconditional support and understanding from people, not further confirmation that they're not living up to their own standards.
    INFPs are pretty much the same (keenly aware of own faults, respond better to encouragement than criticism), but I suppose we're more inclined to take the attitude that we should not nitpick others for the same reason. The set of double standards with some INFJs is the problem, IMO.

    I also notice that INFJs DO have blind spots to some of their own faults, as anyone does. There's more of a resistance to see another's perspective than most people put up though.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #33
    Junior Member janea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I also notice that INFJs DO have blind spots to some of their own faults, as anyone does. There's more of a resistance to see another's perspective than most people put up though.
    Interesting observation! I would think that has to do with the J part....there's some rigidity there that most P's I know are not as prone to. It can be hard to see outside of our little box. I think we not only have a tendency to put other people in boxes but we put ourselves in boxes as well, trying to figure ourselves out and establish an identity (again having to do with security & safety) and that tendency can create "blind spots" like you mentioned.
    The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen. ~ Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

  4. #34
    Junior Member CurlyJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Lol - Try switching your responses around. She needs to take you at face value, and you should consider that maybe when she says she is tired, it could mean more.
    Of course, you're right. I know what needs to be done, but it's still difficult to communicate it a way that's opposite to your type. I can prepare like crazy by reading about personality types and by considering how I want to change my behavior, but when the rubber hits the road I often revert to type and only realize it later.


    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Once you're 'in', just be prepared for a lot of loving
    Even though I've complained a little here, I do realize the big payoff that awaits should I successfully navigate the minefield.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Is it just my imagination, or does a lot of stuff in the OP apply to INFPs as well? Perfectionism, guardedness, sensitivity, occasional unscrutability...

    I swear, half the time in this forum it seems INFJs and INFPs are described as being completely different, and half the time they can be eerily similar...

  6. #36
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    @ viridian: my take.

    1- I have high expectations for myself only. In a relationship, I want a man who has his own passions/hobbies in life that he can work towards. I don't care what "it" is or if he "succeeds" based on societies standards. If he is happy and it helps make him fulfilled... I can get behind that and believe in him.

    2- I am critical of myself. I want my friends and loved ones to be content with themselves. They should follow their own inner compass not mine. If they want constructive criticism or need tough love, I can do that.

    3- Yes and no. I try to keep things in perspective. But admittedly this is a weak area for me. Also if I am pmsing, its easier to lose sight of the horizon.

    4- This is very true.

    5- very true as well. I do my best to have my guy's back and I expect the same from him.

    6- Very true as well. I am working on being better with conflict. It's another weak point of mine. So often I get full of emotion and it comes out as tears. I'm not trying to be manipulative at all... It just can't be helped always!

    7- Yes and no. Another weak area of mine. I prefer conflicts occurring as they need to without unnecessary buildup. this is where I really appreciate a partner who is willing to be patient with me and who is naturally calmer during conflict. It helps make me speak up sooner and more often rather than bottling it inside for some ridiculously huge argument that could have been avoided.

    8- In the past yes. Me currently, no.

    9- In the past yes. Currently, insufficient data. This has been something I have mentally been working on trying to be aware of and address. It's not fair to either party if I do this.

    10- I would say yes without the doorslam. I do the INFP doorslam if the person has crossed too many lines and hasn't learned to back off.

    Interesting thread, Janea! I hope this was ok to respond to!

  7. #37
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I dated, lived with, and was engaged to an INFJ for about 5 years. I have never experienced anything close to what they call the "INFJ doorslam" and wonder if I/E nfp's might just be immune to it. Or I had a ridiculously persistent INFJ on my hands.

    I also have not experiened this difficulty of getting INFJ's to open up, romantically. Friends are a different story. I think that when you get like partners together, in the case of NF-NF, alot of defense mechanisms just naturally fall down, without one even completely realizing it at the time.

    In any of my NF-NF pairings, things came together very quickly. And while the infj and infp might seem to have all these pre-reqs of potential mates, I don't seem them play out as much IRL. It's easy to analyze this from afar, theoretically, but don't forget that both are tremendously romantic, wanting to be understood, and willing to go to hell and back for someone they love. So I guess what I'm saying is that it's possible that initially it looks hard, but once they have their minds set up, INFJ's will move fucking mountains to keep the relation. If that means they have to adjust expectations, be sometimes insanely tolerant, they do this. Mine did.

    Edit: Oh ya, the one ENORMOUS exception.. INFJ's MUST have security. They carefully weigh up the potential and possibilities for the two of you to build the life that they have in their minds. If an INFJ falls in love with someone that is unable to do this, they are at a TERRIBLE cross-roads, and it can drive them quite literally insane. A healther INFJ might let you go, as they should.. and a less healthy INFJ will try endlessly to conform or mold you.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  8. #38
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    @ viridian: my take.

    1- I have high expectations for myself only. In a relationship, I want a man who has his own passions/hobbies in life that he can work towards. I don't care what "it" is or if he "succeeds" based on societies standards. If he is happy and it helps make him fulfilled... I can get behind that and believe in him.

    2- I am critical of myself. I want my friends and loved ones to be content with themselves. They should follow their own inner compass not mine. If they want constructive criticism or need tough love, I can do that.

    3- Yes and no. I try to keep things in perspective. But admittedly this is a weak area for me. Also if I am pmsing, its easier to lose sight of the horizon.

    4- This is very true.

    5- very true as well. I do my best to have my guy's back and I expect the same from him.

    6- Very true as well. I am working on being better with conflict. It's another weak point of mine. So often I get full of emotion and it comes out as tears. I'm not trying to be manipulative at all... It just can't be helped always!

    7- Yes and no. Another weak area of mine. I prefer conflicts occurring as they need to without unnecessary buildup. this is where I really appreciate a partner who is willing to be patient with me and who is naturally calmer during conflict. It helps make me speak up sooner and more often rather than bottling it inside for some ridiculously huge argument that could have been avoided.

    8- In the past yes. Me currently, no.

    9- In the past yes. Currently, insufficient data. This has been something I have mentally been working on trying to be aware of and address. It's not fair to either party if I do this.

    10- I would say yes without the doorslam. I do the INFP doorslam if the person has crossed too many lines and hasn't learned to back off.

    Interesting thread, Janea! I hope this was ok to respond to!
    You seem to confirm my point in some ways, Sat. With each passing day, it seems to me more and more that there are quite a few different flavors of either type...

    The stuff I read here, especially with INFP, seems almost schizophrenic at times. "INFPs are F dominant, so they're easily hurt by rejection", "INFPs have weak Fe, so they do their own thing and don't get worked up over what people think of them", "INFPs are driven by values, so they butt heads with others a lot", "INFPs value harmony, so they seldom verbalize their objections". Gah!

    Sorry for the derailment, janea. :blushing:

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by janea View Post
    Interesting observation! I would think that has to do with the J part....there's some rigidity there that most P's I know are not as prone to. It can be hard to see outside of our little box. I think we not only have a tendency to put other people in boxes but we put ourselves in boxes as well, trying to figure ourselves out and establish an identity (again having to do with security & safety) and that tendency can create "blind spots" like you mentioned.
    I see this in my good INFJ friend. I know she's more rigid than I about some things and I just let it pass. If I can't, then I'll tell her, gently. I think she's aware of what she's doing. I just don't have the same rigidity. But I always tell myself she's only trying to help. It's hard sometimes because I just want an ear for a while. Others want to fix. I don't need the fix, I just want to process and discuss. To lean on a good friend for a short while. But, because I know she wants me to snap out of the feelings/problem I'm dealing with, I will acknowlege her advice, her thoughts and then change the subject and ask about her life.

  10. #40
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I dated, lived with, and was engaged to an INFJ for about 5 years. I have never experienced anything close to what they call the "INFJ doorslam" and wonder if I/E nfp's might just be immune to it. Or I had a ridiculously persistent INFJ on my hands.

    I also have not experiened this difficulty of getting INFJ's to open up, romantically. Friends are a different story. I think that when you get like partners together, in the case of NF-NF, alot of defense mechanisms just naturally fall down, without one even completely realizing it at the time.

    In any of my NF-NF pairings, things came together very quickly. And while the infj and infp might seem to have all these pre-reqs of potential mates, I don't seem them play out as much IRL. It's easy to analyze this from afar, theoretically, but don't forget that both are tremendously romantic, wanting to be understood, and willing to go to hell and back for someone they love. So I guess what I'm saying is that it's possible that initially it looks hard, but once they have their minds set up, INFJ's will move fucking mountains to keep the relation. If that means they have to adjust expectations, be sometimes insanely tolerant, they do this. Mine did.

    Edit: Oh ya, the one ENORMOUS exception.. INFJ's MUST have security. They carefully weigh up the potential and possibilities for the two of you to build the life that they have in their minds. If an INFJ falls in love with someone that is unable to do this, they are at a TERRIBLE cross-roads, and it can drive them quite literally insane. A healther INFJ might let you go, as they should.. and a less healthy INFJ will try endlessly to conform or mold you.
    I would agree with this. On here, I think ENFPs and INFJs tend to clash a little more than they do in real life, although some real life ENFPs seem kind of flighty to me and warm but occasionally distant at the same time. This would worry me a bit in a romantic relationship as I wouldn't be able to settle in and feel secure about them being around for the long haul, even though they would have the best of intentions.

    I think Huxley really hit it on the head for me with the edit in the last post. This is much the position that I was in with my ESTJ. I would have been more likely to cut off the relationship earlier, but our lives were very intertwined socially and professionally living in a small isolated community and I really did care about him, even while I recognized our incompatibility in the most important areas of my life and some behaviours that were rather destructive. I did recognize that we couldn't have a future together outside that community, but I still turned myself inside out to try to get things to work well for the time we did have together. At the beginning he was trying hard to be what he thought I wanted, which I didn't want him to do. Then when he realized things weren't going to go as he envisioned, he increasingly started acting in ways that I didn't like or respect, which caused friction between us, but by then I was invested in the relationship and there were still times when I felt close to him, which kept me in. I certainly wouldn't have tolerated behaviour like lying or cheating or verbal abuse etc. It was more that the poorer choices were intermittent and weren't present until a couple years into the relationship (when he realized that we weren't going to be together forever). I think I've realized since then that insecurities (even when presented in a sure of oneself way) are extremely destructive and that until they've been addressed individually, there is no way for the relationship to operate well.

    I also realize (as far as the future I envisioned) that I understood from the beginning that we were a poor match in that way. I had underestimated the power of proximity and meeting each others practical and emotional needs though, which resulted in emotional closeness that trumped intellectual understanding of what was or wasn't good about the prospects of our future together. The same concerns I had at the beginning (polar opposites re religion, goals in life, role of family, upbringing, basic world view, role of alcohol in socializing and entertaining, how we chose who to spend time with etc) were still very real concerns, despite him being very compatible in other ways, responsible, thoughtful, and smart.

    Now, I'd be much more willing to experience the pain of saying good-bye to someone I care about than to spend both people's time in a relationship that can't really go anywhere. Certainly had you asked me before, I would have told you it is dumb to plan to break up some time in the future. It looked like that amount of time would be a matter of a few months, but it turned into a couple more years. He acted the way he did as a way of keeping from feeling too emotionally invested if we weren't going to be together forever, and yet some of the time he pursued that kind of closeness. I tried to think of a way that I could somehow make it work without giving up who and what I was all about. I was overaccommodating at the same time as being unable to give up the conclusion (blame Ni?) that in the long run we both would make each other quite unhappy and always be pulling in different directions, despite caring a lot about each other.

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