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  1. #21
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    No, the way I see it, if you genuinely care about not hurting other people, if one of your biggest priorities is the way your loved ones feel, then you're not being inauthentic at all...you're doing what feels authentic to you, even if it means sometimes keeping quiet.

    I think it's inauthentic to pretend you care about someone you don't, though. The ISFJ I already mentioned says he nods and smiles at people he doesn't know well, but is more his true self about people he cares about. The thing is, I do that too and I'm not an SFJ. The primary difference is that I really don't give much of a damn about things like "being embarrassed in public" because my thinking is if those people don't matter to me, then what they think of me doesn't matter, while the ISFJ might genuinely think it's rude to subject other people to that.

    So neither way is less genuine. It's just a difference in prioritizing.
    maybe the isfj feels he is authentic by doing so. you said having the motive to authenticity is ok but how can we judge if people feel like having it or dont
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  2. #22
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    TBF, I understood where you were going with your "less of a core" idea.. meaning less internal reflection. Fi bases its values internally, Fe outwardly. I didn't see it as you saying "Fe's are just all empty shells of a human being" but your right.. you have to watch your words in these parts =P
    Less internal reflection?

    To Viridian's point (and my examples/questions in my first post were basically the same) - if you're thinking about different things prior to making a choice, then how is that less reflection or less internal contemplation? It's just contemplating different things.

    Just so you guys know - I'm not offended or anything, I just genuinely tend not to understand these sorts of discussions and views of authenticity, which is why I ask the questions.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    maybe the isfj feels he is authentic by doing so. you said having the motive to authenticity is ok but how can we judge if people feel like having it or dont
    Yes, he is being authentic, because he is authentically sticking to what he values.

    That's the point I'm trying to make here.

    Fe tends to genuinely prioritize a certain level of social harmony, and to act to preserve that, even at the cost of sometimes repressing or going along with what people you love want, it is still authentic to what they feel is RIGHT. Furthermore, I've seen SFJs get pretty pissed and speak up about what they feel is "not right" so they're authentic in that way too.

  4. #24
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    when the point is everyone is authentic cause we cant prove otherwise i agree. i hope you one day get rid of that fe wants social harmony scheme, thats a part for some fe types but not for all. there are enough fe types who are social outcasts because they dont comply with societal rules and who are getting sick of reading that they are trieeing to blend in
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    when the point is everyone is authentic cause we cant prove otherwise i agree. i hope you one day get rid of that fe wants social harmony scheme, thats a part for some fe types but not for all. there are enough fe types who are social outcasts because they dont comply with societal rules and who are getting sick of reading that they are trieeing to blend in
    Well I'm talking specifically in the case of this ISFJ for example, and what he values IRL.

    On the other hand, Fe can also be provocative. People with a bunch of Fe can actually be the best at poking at people, making them feel things, and causing massive disruption. Because they know exactly what will push other people's buttons. The ISFJ I'm speaking of definitely also does this, and so did my ESFJ ex.

    I sometimes think that's what dom/aux Fe comes down to, at least in part: pressing the right and wrong buttons and having the instinctive knowledge of how to do that.

  6. #26
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well I'm talking specifically in the case of this ISFJ for example, and what he values IRL.

    On the other hand, Fe can also be provocative. People with a bunch of Fe can actually be the best at poking at people, making them feel things, and causing massive disruption. Because they know exactly what will push other people's buttons. The ISFJ I'm speaking of definitely also does this, and so did my ESFJ ex.

    I sometimes think that's what dom/aux Fe comes down to, at least in part: pressing the right and wrong buttons and having the instinctive knowledge of how to do that.
    i agree and i am impressed by your patience just right now

    *kidding* didnt want to poke you, just wanted to say that to me authenticity shouldnt be used to value people. i tend to say authentic to people who speak their mind who are 'real' and sometimes have kinda odd personalities, so thats my definition of it at least.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #27
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Thats a good point.. variables like these seems to add to my confusion about the concept of authenticity. What do you think?
    What, me? I know zippo about human relationships, but I don't think being mindful of who you're talking to is dishonesty, if you are not bamboozling him/her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    No, the way I see it, if you genuinely care about not hurting other people, if one of your biggest priorities is the way your loved ones feel, then you're not being inauthentic at all...you're doing what feels authentic to you, even if it means sometimes keeping quiet.

    I think it's inauthentic to pretend you care about someone you don't, though. The ISFJ I already mentioned says he nods and smiles at people he doesn't know well, but is more his true self about people he cares about. The thing is, I do that too and I'm not an SFJ. The primary difference is that I really don't give much of a damn about things like "being embarrassed in public" because my thinking is if those people don't matter to me, then what they think of me doesn't matter, while the ISFJ might genuinely think it's rude to subject other people to that.

    So neither way is less genuine. It's just a difference in prioritizing.
    1st paragraph: I get what you mean. I understand that honesty is a must in relationships - at least, that's what I hear - but there's no need to speak everything you say, especially when you ask yourself, "How do you respond to someone saying that?". Some things can really come out of left field, you know?

    2nd paragraph: I see what you mean, Ms. D, though I can see a scenario where it can be pretty valid. You meet someone, they sound snippy, sarcastic or just plain rude; you have a negative reaction to them, but then you ask yourself, "Wait - am I judging this person too quickly? Does s/he have a side I'm unaware of? What do I know of their past, their story? Does s/he feel judged by everyone she meets, as well?". It's like when you meet someone with Asperger's who sounds blunt and fussy, but, on the inside, feels out of place, fearful or even "wrong" by everyone's standards.

    Things are not always what they seem.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    i agree and i am impressed by your patience just right now

    *kidding* didnt want to poke you, just wanted to say that to me authenticity shouldnt be used to value people. i tend to say authentic to people who speak their mind who are 'real' and sometimes have kinda odd personalities, so thats my definition of it at least.
    You didn't poke me, I was just clarifying.

    I'm actually very susceptible to the blend of poking/button pushing/nurturing in Fe dom/aux males. It keeps me hooked.

    In females I only like when they push the right buttons, which women with Fe seem more inclined to be socialized to do, but not always. That's another thing: I think socialization affects Fe tremendously, so boys who are socialized that being male means teasing or being a certain way, and not as "nice" as girls, will really adhere to that via Fe.

  9. #29
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    ok i'll go back to the nerd forums now i feel i get analyzed here and before i need to show some real feelings and things get ugly i better run
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #30
    Senor Membrane
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    Hmm. I thought I already answered but I guess the network isn't doing so well. Anyhow, I thought I should answer this before reading the other replies, because this is one of those subjects that could take me on so many different paths depending on the other people's thoughts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I wondered... how might it feel to be behaving in an inauthentic, fake manner.. when someone responds genuinely? Do people that tend to wear these masks feel threatened by it? Do they feel bad? Do they see authentic people as week? Too open or self revealing? Do they even recognize it?
    They are intimidated. They see me as someone who doesn't play by their rules. I guess it is partly that they notice I might be playing by any rules (I am an introvert, so it's not like they will get too many clues), and it could be that I see through their game. I do see that they are faking, but I don't see what their true motivations are. Well, usually I don't. It happens to be, thought, that I focus to observe the dishonest, and I will eventually understand their game, so they are wise in avoiding my company. Most of the time I don't act on these hunches, so they're safe. And most of the time they are harmless. But I don't think I often get anyone off my list of people I need to watch out for. Sounds a bit paranoid. Really there are only two or three people on this list.

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