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  1. #11
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Life makes you crazy. I think a challenge for Fi users - particularly XNFPs - is learning to trust your gut and learning how and when your gut is accurate (and when it's not). I guess it's not necessarily that it's Fi that is accurate or not, but that "gut feeling" I think it's harder for INFPs than for ENFPs to articulate to others what their Fi is telling them.

    Developing and trusting intuition takes time, more for some than for others.

    Everyone has to learn to stick to their guns when they know something is 'right' whether or not they are ultimately correct. Part of it is a leap of faith. Part of it is predetermined by how we're wired. Part of it is asserting your ego on the world and your right to exist.

    Damn...am I making any sense today? Bah.

    But yeah, once you hone it and work out the kinks and basically once you trust your intuition, stick to your guns.

    Of course, you will probably annoy the shit out of non Fi users, and some other Fi users who don't understand your reasoning. LOLOL.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  2. #12
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    For me its not the difficulty in verbalizing my intuition, I can lay out how this with this and that have all linked up to make X the likely, its just like Nolla mentions.. these clues seem to lead some to think.. "okay. It is what it is." and others to say "No.. this is what it really means." I do think that NF's are good in understanding the meaning behind the act. Even the tiniest, most subtle tone or expression. Since I believe Qlippoth is ENFP.. I'm not sure if this is Fi/Ne or Ne/Fi.
    I'm eternally confused about my type.. but I agree with you guys completely. I know things but I don't use some sort of logical reasoning process to figure them out. But I can draw a line between points, I can rationalize a logical connection. The types of things that I figure that I 'know' is a person's internal motivations, but these are notoriously tricky to confirm. It has a lot to do with things fitting, the shapes of actions not going with the circumstances. I guess it does trigger more when there's a mismatch.

    EDIT: Reading CzeCze's and Marm's post, Holy crap.. I probably am an NF. I didn't really really believe it. I always have some sort of multi branched narrative going in my head as to why someone did something. I know it may not be true.. but I just treat it as so.

    My satisfaction in life went up like 10x when I learned to trust myself.

  3. #13
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    I barely identify with this. In fact, I often feel like the most rational, cool-headed one in a family of Ni doms/auxes. In more N/S balanced environments like school, I developed a reputation for eccentricity and spaciness perhaps, but definitely not one of paranoia. Do I follow new ideas as and when they come up? Sure. I wouldn't call them hunches or gut feelings though. It's more about exploring and having fun with thoughts and thinking (oooh is what I think would happen actually going to happen when I press this big shiny red button?!), not necessarily a guide to action.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Way to embrace your Te!

    This thread is so intriguing. I thought the hard-to-explain intuition thing was related to Ni, not Ne. And yet all these INFPs are posting here about how they relate. Do you guys think it's Fi/Ne, or something? Sensing patterns with Ne and drawing a conclusion with Fi? But that doesn't explain the difficulty verbalizing how you came to the conclusion...
    I don't think it's exclusive to Fi/Te, EJCC - I've heard quite a few INFJs feel that "There's something rotten in Denmark" sensation...

  5. #15
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I don't think it's exclusive to Fi/Te, EJCC - I've heard quite a few INFJs feel that "There's something rotten in Denmark" sensation...
    Oh, I'm very familiar with INFJ intuition... speaking as someone with a nagging INFJ parent. And that's why I'm so confused by this thread. I guess, recently, I've gotten so into function analysis that I have a hard time thinking of INFP intuition and INFJ intuition as being even remotely the same thing. I don't think I would ever describe an NFP as being "crazy"/"paranoid" -- I might hear an NFP's particularly outlandish-seeming statements and think of them as being naive, too quick to believe things, or just stubbornly unwilling to fact-check, but I would never think of them as paranoid.

    Can any of you guys give an example of a time when you had an intuition that everyone thought was crazy, and then was proven true? Humor me; I'm an SJ and I always need concrete examples.
    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    I barely identify with this. In fact, I often feel like the most rational, cool-headed one in a family of Ni doms/auxes. In more N/S balanced environments like school, I developed a reputation for eccentricity and spaciness perhaps, but definitely not one of paranoia. Do I follow new ideas as and when they come up? Sure. I wouldn't call them hunches or gut feelings though. It's more about exploring and having fun with thoughts and thinking (oooh is what I think would happen actually going to happen when I press this big shiny red button?!), not necessarily a guide to action.
    This is more in line with what I knew about NFPs, i.e. that the "craziness" comes from Ne -- just like with NTPs. Because I can be the same way, when my Ne shows itself. I definitely relate to aspects of this post, because a lot of people's first impressions of me are based on enthusiastic Ne "eccentricity".
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  6. #16
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    I think Ni is more "paranoid" and Ne "connects the dots" more (and sometimes connects those dots wrongly)...like Ni is the visionary (and sometimes that vision is a little off) and Ne is the one who sees patterns, like how Huxley noticed patterns in her teachers behavior. That's not "a gut feeling" or a "hunch." That's her noticing a pattern in someone's behavior with Ne and if she was an adult she could have articulated it more clearly.

    I'm still thinking hunches and gut feelings are a Feeler thing. Or reading body language/facial expression. "Feeling" that something is wrong with your best friend, sister, or mate. Et al. I think all Feelers can do this unless they're very close to Thinking or they're just not very bright. It is not exclusive to NFs. The two things are not the same thing.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I meant that when an NFP tries to convey a connection or a hunch, to someone wanting more concrete information.. they will often here "thats crazy" or "your being paranoid". Not that the NFP actually feels crazy or paranoid. Though I have seen a few ENFP's become paranoid in times of stress, believing that people are talking about them, possibly plotting against them, or that SO's are cheating on them. Paranoid is probably a better word for Ni.. crazy for Ne. And I very well could be describing something that is not mbti intution, or rather that feeling can be very interwoven with intuition.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I meant that when an NFP tries to convey a connection or a hunch, to someone wanting more concrete information.. they will often here "thats crazy" or "your being paranoid". Not that the NFP actually feels crazy or paranoid. Though I have seen a few ENFP's become paranoid in times of stress, believing that people are talking about them, possibly plotting against them, or that SO's are cheating on them. Paranoid is probably a better word for Ni.. crazy for Ne. And I very well could be describing something that is not mbti intution, or rather that feeling can be very interwoven with intuition.
    Okay, I can see where you're coming from. Like I'll say someone "feels" like an Sensing Thinker to me (for example) without explaining with any specific details. That's pretty much a sure way to drive an Sensing Thinker batshit, btw.

    I think the reason why I like SFJs is because they can be kinder about my "crazies" but still supply me with information, like they fill in details with their Si, or encourage me to re-read something instead of immediately reacting in an emotional way.

    NTJs and NFJs can kind of do this, too. Though with NTJs they just say, "settle down, here are the facts" ...which feels similar to an SFJ to me, except it's much more rational and cool-headed instead of understanding and comforting, but it has a similar result.

    I know what what you're talking about.

  9. #19
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I've never been accused of being paranoid, honestly. Maybe it's just the people I know (lots of SFs in my family, who often get "hunches" about people based on sensory stuff they pick up aided by Feeling), but when I suspect something, most people find it reasonable. It's likely because I do tend to find a line of reasoning to back up my "hunches". I think it's common for Ns to start with a conclusion & work backwards if necessary.

    I have to admit that when I was younger I did not trust what I called "feelings", but I realize those were often "intuitions" (in MBTI terms), as my feeling-reasoning dismissed anything seemingly irrational. These intuitions were conclusions I had drawn from "out of nowhere", but being a dominant rational type (Fi-dom), I always felt that everything needed a solid reason behind it (and there was some inferior Te insecurity; I was aware of not being good at judging what is factual reality). If I could not evaluate something because there was nothing there, then I'd dismiss those intuitions, which essentially belittled my own viewpoint & inhibited me from acting on them. I trust them more now, & act on my Ne inspirations more, but I always seek to explain things rationally to others still. I think this is likely more typical with Ji-doms who use Ne-aux than N-doms. I wonder if ENJs do the same....

    On the other hand, I've found my Fi feelings trivialized & invalidated because they are hard to support/explain also. By feelings, I mean my valuations, especially the ones I've formed for myself (less so the "universal" values). People often could not fathom or would not accept that I felt differently from others on key matters. This was NOT iNtuition though, but a matter of Fi judgment.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  10. #20
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    I find two things helpful.

    Knowing what organically throws me off balance and makes me that paranoid NF at times (for me: low-blood sugar, PMS, illness, fatigue, losing part of my support system, hunger, etc), and using that self awareness to know when to grab some time alone and take care of myself instead of getting caught up in a whirlwind of shadowy theory or hunches. If I follow my suspicions while I'm in "the dark place", I have about a 50/50 chance of hitting the nail on the head. Not good enough.

    Secondly, I try to chose whom I share my thoughts with very carefully, and I chose how I present it wisely. My most "out there" (but deeply urgent) intuitions are typically reserved for those very near and dear to my heart, to nurture and protect them. In those relationships, if I've been responsible enough with my intuition, I tend to have the "clout" required to have them hear me when I voice a concern. In larger groups of people, it helps me to ruminate on my "hunch" long enough to have reasonable evidence to at least point people in the right direction. Often, others have observational or research skills that far outstrip mine, and all they need is a nudge in the right direction to turn up actual info. It's all about chosing your audience, timing and delivery prudently.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

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