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[ENFJ] ENFJs and unstable childhoods?

sculpting

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Can someone tell me what happens to ENFJs who have very tramatic, unstable childhoods?

An ESFP woman and ESTP "husband" have two children-a 13yo ESFP and an 8 yo ENFJ, both daughters.

The have been evicted from their home at least six times in the past three years, routinely have the utilities turned off. The parents go through cycles of spending all of their money on expensive toys for them and the children, then to take the toys and pawn them later. They have gone months at a time effectively homeless, living off of their mother, where the children had no bedrooms.

The kids have stayed in the same school, in spite of all the moves, but are well known as "that family". The mom has severe uncontrollable anger issues and recently dropped off her older ESFP daughter with her mom saying "You had better take her before I beat her like the adult she almost is". This sort of talk is common and accompanied by hours of screaming. The half brother of the ENFJ, from a former marriage by the ESTP, shot and almost killed another boy in a drug deal and at 16 is in prison.

ESFP mom cycles through local charities taking handouts and lies about a variety of things to get government aid. The ESFP is extremely manipulative, steals and lies without a second thought and shoplifts as she feels she deserves. The ESTP had five jobs in one summer, most of them door to door selling scams and is frequently unemployed.

Oddly ESFP daughter does well in school, is on the JV cheerleading squad, plays high school basketball and baseball, and is doing okay in school. I assume if she can keep looking at the big picture and develop some tert Te, she might escape this disaster.

However I really, really worry about the little ENFJ. I dont understand what this will do to her as she is both very sensitive, but very stubborn.

How does this sort of nightmare of a childhood impact and ENFJ and what coping skills will she need to develop to escape it? What are things that can be done to help her, especially when surrounded by some really selfish FPs?
 

Thursday

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Hi,

Assuring her that everything will be "ok" is not the answer. I believe this to be unhealthy. Try to highlight what this can teach her; that she is getting a look first-hand at what others only hear as a rumor. Show her not your expectations of her, but of the woman that she has the potential to become. Chances are she is soaking up all of these emotional climates and letting them churn inside of her while holding them at bay. Give her an activity that requires discipline and attention and concentration, while demanding skill. Tell her that no matter how bad her parents are and how tough this may be, there are experiences beyond her wildest imaginations that equal and surpass all that she has known in a negative light.

I too am sensitive and stubborn to a "T" This will be her saving grace. I would love to help you long run, so feel free to message me or we can keep this thread running.
 

sculpting

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Hi,

Assuring her that everything will be "ok" is not the answer. I believe this to be unhealthy. Try to highlight what this can teach her; that she is getting a look first-hand at what others only hear as a rumor. Show her not your expectations of her, but of the woman that she has the potential to become. Chances are she is soaking up all of these emotional climates and letting them churn inside of her while holding them at bay. Give her an activity that requires discipline and attention and concentration, while demanding skill. Tell her that no matter how bad her parents are and how tough this may be, there are experiences beyond her wildest imaginations that equal and surpass all that she has known in a negative light.

I too am sensitive and stubborn to a "T" This will be her saving grace. I would love to help you long run, so feel free to message me or we can keep this thread running.

Thank you Thursday. Your thoughts mean a great deal.

The part about letting the emotions churn inside her while holding them at bay. I cant even recognize what that means for me, but when you said it, that is exactly what she does. From the outside it is this weird combination of being very resilient and tough but very sensitive as well, but oddly ballsy.

I am vacillating about calling CPS on her mother. I dont think her children would be removed, but perhaps it might make the mother think twice about how she treats her kids. I dont understand how someone could say such horrible things to those you love.

Would things like religion or sunday school serve as external sources of hope for her? I dont mean to push religion, but if it is a source of strength, I would suggest it. If I can bite my tongue and mend bridges with the mom, I might be able to spend more time with both girls, and try and take them out to do activities.

Can you suggest any books that might be inspirational for her? That might be another way to reach around her mother, so to speak.

I have also thought about offering to pay for her to take gymnastics lessons or girl scouts or some activity that allows her to see past the immediate family.
 

Thursday

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Gymnastics is a good way and if she is naturally passionate about it, all the better. Religion often serves as an escape goat too often. It is an option, but the variety of spiritual mandates are more often about giving others the power. Religion never took with me as much as self-reliance and individual principles and personal beliefs. This leads to the experiences and emotions gained from literature and art.

Books are a great way to alter someone's perception in a positive manner, I suggest " The Power of One" by Bryce Courtenay. Has an ENFJ in a parallel situation. Also, there is a novel called "The Elegance of the Hedgehog" by Muriel Barbery

Just realize that she will have a defined "dark-side" that the ENFJs are so famous for having after this, but it serves as a wet-blanket to check enthusiasms and idyllic feelings that are unrealistic and reckless. But sarcastic humor is a great way to incorporate such a thing in a healthy way.

As such, tell her she is not responsible for other's actions, and that what is most important is her Re-action to the situation. Tell her to listen to her gut and intuition, and don't get mired in her thoughts and feelings too much. Tell her to accept and observe and feel them, but do not do anything based upon that fire. A journal would be a good release valve for this. Give her a quote book from business people and proverbs from china/japan - easy to get off the web and print.

Perhaps going to the authorities in person would provide and exclamation mark and grant expediency to your cause and her well being. It is beyond doubt that the responsible authorities should be contacted.

Thank you for this. On my behalf and hers, she will have the power of love so strong because of your concern. Provide her with plenty of hugs.
 
A

A window to the soul

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Can someone tell me what happens to ENFJs who have very tramatic, unstable childhoods?

My ENFJ sis had a very tramatic childhood; courtesy of ENTP. She's doing just fine now. I think she's stronger and wiser.
 

copperfish17

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Every single ENFJ I have ever known has a pretty dark past... In the end, I somehow concluded that it's their traumatic experiences that actually shaped them into ENFJs; I think the source of ENFJs' strong empathy/maturity is their own pain. I can't really prove any of this, and I'm willing to accept that my conclusion may be wrong/invalid. These ENFJs have grown into capable, sincere, and empathetic adults now, and I deeply care for each of them. They're all my good friends.

In any case, it's very kind of you to try to reach out to the ENFJ. I think the only things you should be careful of is stepping into her boundaries and/or forcing anything onto her. Besides that, I think you're good to go. Most ENFJs, IME, appreciate it a lot if you listen to their stories attentively and just spend lots of time with them. Verbal affection works well, as do hugs. As for compliments, as long as it's sincere and well-deserved, I'm sure the ENFJ will soak it up.
 

Thalassa

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She needs a strong adult role model to cling to outside of the family.

It sounds like her mother has Borderline Personality Disorder.
 
G

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She will most likely either strongly withdraw or rebel against if she doesn't have at least one stable person in her life.

Withdrawn: stuck in fear, become a doormat, conflict avoidant, very reserved, emotionally conflicted (detached vs. engaged), laissez faire.

Rebel: become combative, emotionally explosive but not really aware about how she feels, master manipulator, reckless behaviour, engages in forms of escapism.

There can often times be a mixture of the two.

The best thing that you could probably do for her is not FORCE her to open up but help her redirect her emotionally energy (activities to get her mind off of things, quality fun time to help her not miss out her actual "childhood") elsewhere because repressed emotional trauma that is unleashed can be quite intense.

Church didn't do much for me either. I think it actually made me a bit more fearful (hearing about heaven, hell, and sins because it made things seem so "black and white") with the slightly moderate amount of childhood trauma I have endured. If she chooses and willing wants religion in her life, it can provide a sense of hope and comfort but if not, it can come off as "forced, being judged" causing further confusion on what to think about her family even with the good intentions. Religion can be quite helpful but one should be careful using it when trying to help others. IME, for some people, it has been the saving grace and, for others, they become hostile to the well intentioned act of bringing religion in.
 

Sparrow

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The ENFJ girl might also try to take on the caretaker roll since her parents aren't all there 100%, not healthy for a child! :( This will probably make her codependent in her future relationships, she might also become an adult/child who is a little emotionally immature since thats all she knew growing up.

Poor thing, she needs to be a kid and not worry about all that crap :(. That is really sweet of you to care! She definitly needs better role models in her life.
 
G

Glycerine

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The ENFJ girl might also try to take on the caretaker roll since her parents aren't all there 100%, not healthy for a child! :( This will probably make her codependent in her future relationships, she might also become an adult/child who is a little emotionally immature since thats all she knew growing up.

Poor thing, she needs to be a kid and not worry about all that crap :(. That is really sweet of you to care! She definitly needs better role models in her life.

:yes: That sounds a lot like my ISFP friend (I am not saying anything really MBTI related). She pours so much love and attention into her animals! :). She is the "responsible" one in her family.
 

Sparrow

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:yes: That sounds a lot like my ISFP friend (I am not saying anything really MBTI related). She pours so much love and attention into her animals! :). She is the "responsible" one in her family.

Awe bless her heart :*)!
 

Meek

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I have an Enfj boyfriend who had a really horrid past. He was raped at the age of 7 and his mother abused him, and also physically hit his dad in front of him.

He's had friends who used him and his whole family is inbred- not kidding. He was made fun of in school for having a different shaped lip because of the cleft palate he had when he was born, then having surgeries for it. He had cancer in his ear so they had to take his ear drum out. Now he's deaf in his left ear, completely. He is still going through family issues but I Hope to work my ass off to help the both of us move away from his family for good. I want to take him away from the childhood memories in this town and his screwed up family.

The enfj women I've known are all very histrionic and usually demand attention. Though, I think the enfj may grow up to blame herself over and over for being treated so badly. Even when things are not her fault, she might. She needs to be reminded that things are not her fault, that she is loved and does not deserve to be neglected. My enfj is suicidal often, often contemplating it because his life never gets better. He always gives in to people who hurt him but when I came along, I showed him just how abusive people were being toward him and perhaps this little Enfj needs one good person in her life, to make up for all of the wrong the bad people have caused her
 

sculpting

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I have been a bit overwhelmed the last few weeks but just reread the thread. Thanks you all for your thoughts and taking the time to give me feedback and suggestions.
 

EJCC

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EDIT: This post was totally unnecessary! Everyone had it covered, probably. Wow -- whoops! Hope this is all helpful, anyway:

How does this sort of nightmare of a childhood impact and ENFJ and what coping skills will she need to develop to escape it? What are things that can be done to help her, especially when surrounded by some really selfish FPs?
Based on anecdotal evidence from the ENFJ friends I've known, she will bounce back and grow up to be an incredibly strong and vibrant person, as long as she can separate herself from her family (to a degree) and remind herself that her family isn't "normal".

One of my very best friends -- the friend I can talk to about almost anything -- is an ENFJ (enneagram 3), whose mom has borderline personality disorder, and who was essentially rescued by family friends who adopted him. His mom would still visit him a lot, and would occasionally abuse him (e.g. throwing plates and other objects at him in a blind rage). Both of his younger siblings developed personality disorders, but he remains healthy and well-adjusted. Currently he's in grad school, training to be a therapist, and very happy with the direction his life is going.

Initially, when his life wasn't as good as it is now (i.e. when he wasn't having as much success separating himself from his mother), I'd say his coping mechanisms involved
- Becoming a PCA at an independent living facility (and doing other things relating to nurturing and caretaking)
- Some unhealthy habits (including binge eating) that he has given up since moving out of his family's house, and
- Being incredibly charming and nurturing to everyone he meets. (Which isn't a bad thing, and is probably what the ENFJ in question will do too.)

Also, he had a tendency, for a while, to make friends with (and enter romantic relationships with) people with psychological issues, who he could nurture and care for. HOWEVER, what got him out of this cycle was gaining a circle of friends (including me) who were able to nurture HIM instead, and show him gently that he deserved better than what he got, and what he was giving himself. So, to answer the last part of your question, I think the skills he gained to get himself out of it weren't so much skills, so much as revelations and bits of wisdom. You know -- realizations. He had the skills all along, but all he needed was the motivation to use them.

So, in the past couple of years, he has made a remarkable transformation. He went from being an awkward, overweight kid in a terrible family situation (and also a terrible hometown situation; he was a gay Catholic in a very small and conservative town), to a fit and healthy young adult ready to benefit society and make the world a better place. He's moved somewhere more accepting, made more accepting friends, lost weight, gained confidence, converted to Episcopalianism, accepted and embraced his homosexuality... I could go on and on. All in all, he's a success story :)

You know, it's strange; the INFJs I've known who grew up in bad situations have grown up to be immature, codependent, passive aggressive and generally unhealthy and in need of therapy. But the ENFJs I've known have done just the opposite. I have high hopes for the ENFJ in the OP; as long as she makes good friends and has people in her life who love her and nurture her, she will probably end up just fine. :)
 

sciski

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She needs a strong adult role model to cling to outside of the family.

This cannot be emphasised enough, especially for an ExFJ.

I don't know anyone personally like this, but have read many stories written by grown-ups who had unstable childhoods, and what got them through was the consistent caring and substitute parenting (providing kindness and a stable and safe place to go, as well as making sure they do their homework, enforcing rules, etc) from another source. One story that stuck in my mind was a kid who grew up running with gangs, but for some reason was taken in by the old shopowner at a chinese takeaway shop. He'd go there for his takeaway and the no-nonsense owner would make him do his homework and help him with his math. The kid got through school, cleaned himself up and became a doctor.

Sparrow makes a good point about her possibly trying to take on the parenting role. This little girl needs an adult figure around so that she knows what a functional family relationship is like--where parents look after the kids.

I just read that you've been overwhelmed lately... don't go it alone if possible. Maybe you can get other people who care to share driving duties, and have a consistent roster system? At any rate, good on you for thinking about this girl and having the willingness to do something about it.
 
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