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  1. #1
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
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    Default XNFPs and the Discussion of Events/Feelings

    Hi, NFPs! There's a question that I've been trying to figure out for some time now, and I was wondering if you could help me out.

    A good friend of mine is a XNFP. (She says she's an introvert; but she seems pretty extraverted to me; so I'm including both types to cover my bases.) We're very close and hang out a lot. I'm going through some difficult situations in my life right now, and I really feel like I need to talk about it/get feedback about it/bounce things off of her. But I feel like I'm having an inordinate amount of difficulty in trying to do it. I know that she's a compassionate person who loves to do things to make her friends happy, and she's enthusiastically told me that if there's anything I need from her (including talking about things) to call her. But I guess what the main problem is is that I'm having trouble finding the social cues to do so because me and her have different starting points as to when we would naturally talk about things like that.

    From what I know about NFPs in general, they tend to assume that others will bring up situations that they feel a need to talk about on their own (because that's their own typical conversational style) and that asking about them without them bringing it up could seem intrusive. (Please tell me if this perception seems off to you!) Either way, she has told me that she finds the idea of setting up a time to hang out and talk about lives/feelings (like at a coffee house or something) something like her idea of a nightmare. And when I ask her things like how her week is going, she gets kind of shifty-eyed, gives a superficial response, and quickly changes the subject. So I've stopped doing that, lol. However, for me, I'm waiting for someone to say to me, "How is your week going?/How did that event go yesterday?/Are you feeling better today?", things like that. Otherwise, if the other person doesn't ask me these things, I feel like the other person doesn't care about these things and talking about them and bringing them up myself would seem intrusive.

    Now, since I know (?) that Fi-users typically assume that the other person will bring the subject up if they feel the need to talk about it, and since I know that the XNFP has offered to help me if I need help and genuinely wants to help me if need be, I thought to myself, "Well, then just bring it up even if it isn't the natural thing you'd do!" But that's been a problem too *sigh*. When we get together, she may say "How are you?" as the customary greeting, but often she won't wait for an answer, and she'll begin talking about something else quickly. Our conversations quickly get theoretical or we talk about food/health (a common interest/passion of ours). And at that point, even if I really feel the need to discuss a situation in my life, I feel like, How in the world can I transition from this to my topic? And so it doesn't get discussed. I feel frustrated because it seems like all the factors are there for me to be able to talk to her about these things, and yet there still seems to be a wall there.

    Is there something I'm missing about how NFPs typically discuss these kinds of things or cue them from others? If a friend really needed to talk about something, and you want to help them, how can the friend begin the discussion?

    Any input would be helpful and much appreciated!

  2. #2
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    hmm...it's true that i hate to feel intrusive but it's not true that i never am... unintentionally. i think i actually do ask personal emotional check type questions that others might not and it's not till i get a whoa..that's a lil personal!! look from someone that i realize it was intrusive...and casually smooth it over let em off the hook by saying something like...probably still sorting it all out huh...so they can just say yeah and we can talk about something more comfortable...but luckily i don't know too many people who are uncomfortable to get personal with me.

    so...anyway...it seems a bit odd that you and your friend can't just talk easily about things...you infjs are odd like that i've noticed....just talk to her.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  3. #3
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Are you sure they are NFP? The reason NFPs can get shify is bc of Fi and feeling someone is being intrusive or feeling like what they have to say will be a burden. If the conversation is running away from you, try grounding it again and say "You know, I'd really like your feedback or advice on this" or say "This thing happened to me today and I just really need to talk about it". I would say more mature NFPs are kinda built to listen to those kinds of confessionals and enjoy helping. Depending on how well you know your friend, if they are Fi heavy they just don't feel comfortable sharing like that because either they don't feel that trust level with you yet and/or they think you will not react well to their sharing.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  4. #4
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I feel a little sorry for others when they have to deal with this side of NFPs because it must be so hard to know what to do and it can resemble tiptoeing through a minefield

    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    From what I know about NFPs in general, they tend to assume that others will bring up situations that they feel a need to talk about on their own (because that's their own typical conversational style) and that asking about them without them bringing it up could seem intrusive. (Please tell me if this perception seems off to you!)
    That's correct.

    Either way, she has told me that she finds the idea of setting up a time to hang out and talk about lives/feelings (like at a coffee house or something) something like her idea of a nightmare. And when I ask her things like how her week is going, she gets kind of shifty-eyed, gives a superficial response, and quickly changes the subject. So I've stopped doing that, lol.
    Yeah I do this a fair bit. When people ask me about something I don't want to talk about for one reason or another I always give the most vague answer possible and then add a few platitudes that I know people want to hear, just to smooth over my evasiveness. Often I will then start asking a lot of questions about their life in return to make them forget about the whole subject matter. I have it down to an art form

    I'm not sure about your friend but its hard for me to bring up personal matters in an arbitrary manner. They have to come up in naturally relation to the general conversation, and if I feel comfortable, I will speak about it. And often what I find particularly difficult is when I people force me to reflect on an overarching concept that is troubling me (eg. by bringing up problems with a job, SO, university etc). The trick is to ask about small details that are less emotionally charged, which could lead to the subject you wish to discuss. If your friend feels comfortable enough, the conversation will flow on to the central matter. It sounds stupid but talking around the subject can be the best approach.

    However, for me, I'm waiting for someone to say to me, "How is your week going?/How did that event go yesterday?/Are you feeling better today?", things like that. Otherwise, if the other person doesn't ask me these things, I feel like the other person doesn't care about these things and talking about them and bringing them up myself would seem intrusive.

    Now, since I know (?) that Fi-users typically assume that the other person will bring the subject up if they feel the need to talk about it, and since I know that the XNFP has offered to help me if I need help and genuinely wants to help me if need be, I thought to myself, "Well, then just bring it up even if it isn't the natural thing you'd do!" But that's been a problem too *sigh*. When we get together, she may say "How are you?" as the customary greeting, but often she won't wait for an answer, and she'll begin talking about something else quickly. Our conversations quickly get theoretical or we talk about food/health (a common interest/passion of ours). And at that point, even if I really feel the need to discuss a situation in my life, I feel like, How in the world can I transition from this to my topic? And so it doesn't get discussed. I feel frustrated because it seems like all the factors are there for me to be able to talk to her about these things, and yet there still seems to be a wall there.
    I'm guilty of this sort of behaviour. I struggle to understand or remember where I'm supposed to say things and ask questions and can seem insensitive because of it. On the other hand it could be intentional. She could think that because you don't bring the subject up yourself that you must not want to talk about it. She fears it might make you uncomfortable to discuss it and therefore she dutifully avoids the subject for your sake. Of course this is how she believes a good friend behaves because it is how she would want to be treated.
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  5. #5
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    But I guess what the main problem is is that I'm having trouble finding the social cues to do so because me and her have different starting points as to when we would naturally talk about things like that.
    i think you've already figured this out, but i don't think many xNFPs really do social cues. half of us probably wouldn't notice one if it hit us across the face...


    but seriously - they make us feel weird, generally, i think. no Fe = very little idea of how to respond appropriately, much less do we know how to cue others with the same ease that FJs do. it was only in my first year of college that i began to get any sense of how to do that, and 4 years later i'm still not very good at it! if she's already given you the go-ahead to talk to her about problems, that means anytime, anywhere. including smack in the middle of conversation.

    From what I know about NFPs in general, they tend to assume that others will bring up situations that they feel a need to talk about on their own (because that's their own typical conversational style) and that asking about them without them bringing it up could seem intrusive. (Please tell me if this perception seems off to you!)


    though for the second part, it sort of depends on how close we are and how much i keep you in the loop. if you're close, i don't mind you asking about how things are going with me. actually i like it a lot. i do think it's odd when acquaintances ask questions like that. it feels like an interview to me.

    Either way, she has told me that she finds the idea of setting up a time to hang out and talk about lives/feelings (like at a coffee house or something) something like her idea of a nightmare.
    !

    admittedly, it does seem a little strange to me. it feels a little awkward. but i mean, if a good friend asked me to and was genuine about it, i'd be fine with it - as long as they didn't want me to share during that time as well... i think maybe that's what makes me uncomfy about it - the promise that i would definitely have to talk about my life or feelings at that time. how do i know now that i will want to talk about my feelings tomorrow at 6? Fi is so fickle... and then even if i didn't want to, the other person would be expecting it, and that would be awkward, etc...

    And when I ask her things like how her week is going, she gets kind of shifty-eyed, gives a superficial response, and quickly changes the subject. So I've stopped doing that, lol.
    haha so if you asked me how my week was, i'd probably look up and to the right, cause that's what i do when i'm remembering things, and then give you an overall idea. i usually assume people want an overall when they ask that... not details. questions like that seem like "conversational gateways" to me. like, useful when we haven't talked in a while or if i don't really know the other person well, but kind of a superficial question if we're close.

    However, for me, I'm waiting for someone to say to me, "How is your week going?/How did that event go yesterday?/Are you feeling better today?", things like that. Otherwise, if the other person doesn't ask me these things, I feel like the other person doesn't care about these things and talking about them and bringing them up myself would seem intrusive.
    yeah, to NFP logic i think it's sort of like, if i'm your friend, i care about what's going on with you. i can't possibly know what's going on with you, nor what you want to talk about... if you had an awful day and don't want to talk about it, i don't want you to have to think about it or talk about it. so it seems easier to me for both of us to just talk about what we want to talk about, instead of prompting one another for things we might not really want to talk about. if i didn't want you to talk to me about the things that are important to you, i wouldn't hang out with you or talk to you. NFPs want to know what you care about... that's what's most interesting to us.

    (i know this is not the same to Fe logic )

    Now, since I know (?) that Fi-users typically assume that the other person will bring the subject up if they feel the need to talk about it, and since I know that the XNFP has offered to help me if I need help and genuinely wants to help me if need be, I thought to myself, "Well, then just bring it up even if it isn't the natural thing you'd do!" But that's been a problem too *sigh*. When we get together, she may say "How are you?" as the customary greeting, but often she won't wait for an answer, and she'll begin talking about something else quickly. Our conversations quickly get theoretical or we talk about food/health (a common interest/passion of ours). And at that point, even if I really feel the need to discuss a situation in my life, I feel like, How in the world can I transition from this to my topic? And so it doesn't get discussed. I feel frustrated because it seems like all the factors are there for me to be able to talk to her about these things, and yet there still seems to be a wall there.

    Is there something I'm missing about how NFPs typically discuss these kinds of things or cue them from others? If a friend really needed to talk about something, and you want to help them, how can the friend begin the discussion?


    all you're missing is that your friend doesn't need any heads-up. we don't really cue or respond to cues (we are so easy to deal with)


    but seriously, we just do. the logic is like, if you want to talk, don't cue, just talk. cuing is confusing to us, lol, sorry. it seems like more rules and dancing around things. that's one of the lovely things about friends - they're people with whom social boundaries are dropped so you can jump straight to the heart of things with them. sometimes NFPs can get off on tangents and get self-absorbed - if i don't know the other person has something they want to talk about, i just let conversation run free. i think she would feel bad if she knew you had something you wanted to talk about but felt like you couldn't talk to her... you know how you are looking for those prompting questions? she gave you that a long, long time ago in condensed format by saying to talk to her whenever. that's a genuine offer - "tell me about what's important to you?" - and it stands permanently.

    if you don't want to tell her that you want to talk about something in face-to-face conversation, you could write her a little note, or send an email or text. i know she said she didn't like the idea of setting up a time and place to talk, but i suspect that's mostly because it feels superficial to Fi - like "you should talk when you feel like you want to talk, not at a prearranged time" - but i don't think she would have any problem if you would be like "hey i'm having some trouble with this situation and i was wondering if i could bounce a few ideas off you, can we get together tonight at 8 at the cafe?" or something. i bet she would be more than happy to.

    good luck

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    Hi, NFPs! There's a question that I've been trying to figure out for some time now, and I was wondering if you could help me out.

    A good friend of mine is a XNFP. (She says she's an introvert; but she seems pretty extraverted to me; so I'm including both types to cover my bases.) We're very close and hang out a lot. I'm going through some difficult situations in my life right now, and I really feel like I need to talk about it/get feedback about it/bounce things off of her. But I feel like I'm having an inordinate amount of difficulty in trying to do it. I know that she's a compassionate person who loves to do things to make her friends happy, and she's enthusiastically told me that if there's anything I need from her (including talking about things) to call her. But I guess what the main problem is is that I'm having trouble finding the social cues to do so because me and her have different starting points as to when we would naturally talk about things like that.

    From what I know about NFPs in general, they tend to assume that others will bring up situations that they feel a need to talk about on their own (because that's their own typical conversational style) and that asking about them without them bringing it up could seem intrusive. (Please tell me if this perception seems off to you!) Either way, she has told me that she finds the idea of setting up a time to hang out and talk about lives/feelings (like at a coffee house or something) something like her idea of a nightmare. And when I ask her things like how her week is going, she gets kind of shifty-eyed, gives a superficial response, and quickly changes the subject. So I've stopped doing that, lol. However, for me, I'm waiting for someone to say to me, "How is your week going?/How did that event go yesterday?/Are you feeling better today?", things like that. Otherwise, if the other person doesn't ask me these things, I feel like the other person doesn't care about these things and talking about them and bringing them up myself would seem intrusive.

    Now, since I know (?) that Fi-users typically assume that the other person will bring the subject up if they feel the need to talk about it, and since I know that the XNFP has offered to help me if I need help and genuinely wants to help me if need be, I thought to myself, "Well, then just bring it up even if it isn't the natural thing you'd do!" But that's been a problem too *sigh*. When we get together, she may say "How are you?" as the customary greeting, but often she won't wait for an answer, and she'll begin talking about something else quickly. Our conversations quickly get theoretical or we talk about food/health (a common interest/passion of ours). And at that point, even if I really feel the need to discuss a situation in my life, I feel like, How in the world can I transition from this to my topic? And so it doesn't get discussed. I feel frustrated because it seems like all the factors are there for me to be able to talk to her about these things, and yet there still seems to be a wall there.

    Is there something I'm missing about how NFPs typically discuss these kinds of things or cue them from others? If a friend really needed to talk about something, and you want to help them, how can the friend begin the discussion?

    Any input would be helpful and much appreciated!
    @1st bold: 90% true. The more I know someone the more I feel comfortable jumping in and saying, hey what's going on? You seem sad/angry/whatever today. But my usual style of empathy is more of a "let the fish come to me to get fished."*

    *I am tired and just saying whatever comes to mind.

    @2nd bold: This is something I kind of had to train myself in. I think it's more naturally a "fe" kinda thang to do.

    @3rd bold: I know it's annoying but have you just tried jumping into the problem and seeing how it goes?

    I dunno... I feel for ya. NFPs can be kinda annoying with this stuff... I know I am that way myself... most of the time I can catch it and work through it... but it takes A LOT of extra effort, and if the person doesn't appreciate it then I will stop doing it.

    When I counsel my friends I usually prefer that they come to me initially and from there I will listen to them talk... and pinpoint the problems I see as they talk. If I sense they want/need advice then I will give them something to mentally nibble on... although often I find people just want someone to LISTEN to them.

  7. #7
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I'm brief with small talk questions like "How was your day?", and often don't have an interesting answer anyways. It's not out of sensitivity, exactly. I'll volunteer personal information at times. I might even answer their question later if I end up thinking of something that was interesting. I didn't know that some people take the lack of response as a cue that I'm pushing them away. Hmm.

    I don't like it if someone is obviously analyzing and judging a lot of personal things, but if it's just about conversation or getting an understanding, it's all good. In fact, I'd love to know more people who can be a little more free in their discussions like this. Formalities and atmospheres that segregate and create a lot of 'in crowd' social boundaries annoy me.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    [...] From what I know about NFPs in general, they tend to assume that others will bring up situations that they feel a need to talk about on their own (because that's their own typical conversational style) and that asking about them without them bringing it up could seem intrusive. (Please tell me if this perception seems off to you!) [...]
    It’s certainly true for me. I’m pretty sure it’s true for many/most INFPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    [...] On the other hand it could be intentional. She could think that because you don't bring the subject up yourself that you must not want to talk about it. She fears it might make you uncomfortable to discuss it and therefore she dutifully avoids the subject for your sake. Of course this is how she believes a good friend behaves because it is how she would want to be treated.
    Yes, this is very true for me too. If I know someone has something touchy going on in their lives but they don’t quickly bring it up in conversation, then I’ll assume that they don’t want to talk about it. Thereafter, I’ll actually collude with them in avoiding the subject, to save them any embarrassment that might arise from an accidental mention of the subject. I may become so militant about avoiding the subject that I may miss obvious cues when they do want to bring up the subject. After a conversation I may think back later and say, “OMG, I think he was trying to bring up that subject finally! Now I have to come right out and ask him if he wants to talk about it!”

    Anyway, if you want to bring up a touchy subject in conversation, I think it would be acceptable to do the following with just about anyone, including an INFP:

    When there’s a brief pause in the conversation, look a bit awkward and say, “I have a personal issue going on in my life, and I would like to run it past you just to get a second opinion. No pressure: It concerns only me and it’s not a real big deal. It’s just that I like to run things past a neutral observer who knows me. Just sometime when you have a few minutes.”

    I think that sort of direct request would appeal to an INFP. It gets past the tap-dancing about whether or not you actually want to talk about it, and it suggests that the two of you can discuss something personal without obligation or drama. The key is to make the request very casual and keep expectations low: purge the request of any hint of pressure or personal investment required on the INFP’s part, and an INFP will become as curious/nosy as anyone else. Then let the INFP’s desire to play therapist do the rest.

    At least, that would work for me.

  9. #9
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I really should retype. Or something. I'm not insensitive, but the sentiments expressed here aren't me.

    Actually, since I brought up Socionics in another thread, I would say that some of the descriptions of IEI are spot on about me. Both in their positive and.. I suppose, negative forms.

    IEIs apply their understanding of trends of behavior over time to observing, analyzing, and influencing people's moods. They make contact with other people by attempting to influence their emotions positively, which is their way of creating something in themself worthy of being included in interaction.

    IEIs are comfortable discussing feelings that arise from interaction between people. They are naturals at guessing who has been offended and approaching the person and helping them to let off steam and make amends with the offender. IEIs are typically quick to take the blame for offenses upon themselves in order to show their acceptance and good will towards the other person, and create good attitudes.


    IEIs' speech and voice usually have a certain dramatic affect and depth of feeling, which influence the emotions in the atmosphere; these feelings can be used to generate elation and boisterous laughter. If IEIs prefer, they can also generate and communicate their feelings of sadness and loss. They are adept at communicating depth of feeling. If things seem too quiet and low-key, they may even generate controversy or conflict to liven things up and get people involved once again in a high-spirited atmosphere.

    The IEI will often say something that sounds very deep and heartfelt only to immediately realize the ridiculousness of what they are saying and make light of it. In this way, the IEI does not induce a formal separation between joking and being serious (like their mirror, the EIE), because they are less premeditated in expression in their natural state.
    They may exhibit a propensity for good-natured, friendly, lighthearted banter and try to promote good will and inclusiveness. On the other hand, IEIs can also direct their emotional influence through a mode of expression that limits their affable levity; they may take on a formal, toxic, serious, or even shock-jock emphasis as situations require.
    ^lol

    Strangely, their functions would be Ni-Fe, not Fi-Ne.. but there seems to be INFPs and INFJs both who type as IEI. All I know is that I can't live up to some of sensitivity of INFPs around here.

  10. #10
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    It's been said already but here's an ENFP stance:

    I don't do small talk. The thing is, I used to mistake 'how are you doing?' for genuine interest of the other person and start talking away to find them be annoyed that I 'took advantage' of their politeness to 'dump' all over them. Sometimes I still do that, but i really try to contain it. I have a kneejerk reaction to answer all questions honestly so when I'm actually not feeling too well it's hard to lie. These I'll make it vague and move on. Also, Fe is a tool to me. That means that if I'm still on a Fe-level with you, you're not in my real comfort circle ( I don't mind people who I know are Fe-users doing it to me though it does sometimes make me roll my eyes and chuckle).

    I like talking about feelings. Scratch that, I *love* it. But I know most people don't. So when they're doing the polite thing and unless it's part of a group discussion or they mention something like 'I need your opinion on this', I try not to go there (I fail, often though). I won't ask about your day, coz when you talk to me, I can feel your mood. I already *know* the most important thing. And, as Skylights said, you might not wanna talk about it. I'm likely to check, just to make sure though and go: 'hey, you feeling alright today, you seem a bit..off '

    If your friend doesn't do that, it would appear that a) she might be less focused on discussing stuff like this in general and/or b) you guys don't have a 'talking about feelings' bond. You share different common grounds, so she's not really ehm..using her skills to check on you emotionally, as you never indicated a need for that/that was never part of your friendship 'contract' (Fi-users tend to make individually tailored 'contracts' in their relationship while Fe-users seem to use the 'standard contract' provided by society). However, that contract is fluid and can be changed over time easy peasy, at least with me. It's kinda like a bond that grows, and when a person indicates that they trust me, and show me that, I'll reciprocate, mirrorring that trust, and deepening the bond, opening our friendship up to more indept convo about who we are and all the vulnerable dirty little secrets that entails. I have people though that don't know me at all and somehow seem to need someone to talk to, sometimes come to me and ask for my opinion on a situation they're in, and i'm more than happy to help if I can. That's more of a professional counsellor-'patient?' type of bond or that's how I feel it, since no bond was established before yet. My point is, talking about feelings doesn't really usually require bonding (at least for me), but if you are friends and it's not naturally part of your friendship, you might have to nudge her sensitivity to this stuff, and just be, as said before go:

    'Hey, can I talk to you about something for a sec? I could use your perspective on this matter as I'm not sure what to do '

    It's simple, to the point, and will make her fully focused on you. Keep in mind that if you ask this though, she'll go into problemsolving mode. If you want to actually just have her listen without saying anything, without solving anything, phrase it differently:

    ' Hey, can I rant at you about something for a bit, I have this thing that's just annoying the shit out of me right now.'

    => indicates listen only, and no jumping in with helpful solutions, just empathizing hard


    Good luck
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