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[MBTI General] xNxJs and being right all the time

SilkRoad

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I'm particularly interested in all of INFJ/INTJ/ENFJ/ENTJ input on this (and "outside" type perspectives too) but thought I'd get the best response in this part of the forum.

It does seem to be a common NJ disease to think that we're right all the time. In essence I'd say that INTJs and ENTJs tend to think their intellectual superiority makes them right all the time (well, either that, or they express themselves with a self-confidence which reinforces that impression.) INFJs and ENFJs think that Ni gives them a superpower meaning that they're never wrong about anyone's character. Certainly from looking online - partly this forum, and partly elsewhere - there are many INTJs who seem to think that by default they're the superior/most intelligent type, and many INFJs who say things like "I am always 100% right about people, their character and their motivations."

Questions:

Do most of us actually fulfill these stereotypes, or is it just a few random souls?

Is it more that we know within ourselves that we're not always right, but we have a very hard time admitting it?

Is it more just a J thing? SJs certainly get accused of thinking they're right all the time, though in my experience that's not exceptionally true (in some cases yes, but I'd probably be inclined to generalize more about NJs in that regard than SJs.)

Am I way off the mark? ;)

General thoughts?
 

onemoretime

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It's a J thing. It's especially pronounced in IxxJs, because the extraverted judging function acts in a parental role. In ExxJs, it's more like when they're sure that they're right, it's better to just sit back and listen, because they're just trying to help, and they usually are right in some sense.
 

SilkRoad

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It's a J thing. It's especially pronounced in IxxJs, because the extraverted judging function acts in a parental role. In ExxJs, it's more like when they're sure that they're right, it's better to just sit back and listen, because they're just trying to help, and they usually are right in some sense.

So, would you say it's mainly a J thing but it takes different forms in different types based on dominant function, etc?

I guess I had the idea for the thread partly because there seem to be a fair number of INFJs who almost literally believe that Ni gives them magical powers which mean they're never wrong about anyone. I can fall into the "always right" trap too sometimes - though I try to watch for it - but one of the traps I've managed to avoid falling into is thinking that Ni is a superpower. ;)
 

onemoretime

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So, would you say it's mainly a J thing but it takes different forms in different types based on dominant function, etc?

I guess I had the idea for the thread partly because there seem to be a fair number of INFJs who almost literally believe that Ni gives them magical powers which mean they're never wrong about anyone. I can fall into the "always right" trap too sometimes - though I try to watch for it - but one of the traps I've managed to avoid falling into is thinking that Ni is a superpower. ;)

Yes, I would say that. Functions work together, after all, and take up different roles based on preference.

I never really saw that in my friend who is an INFJ. He's very open about his uncertainty toward some interpersonal things, but he's not very verbal about it. It's nice to get advice from him, too, because he's usually right about interpersonal things, and he's very diplomatic in how he broaches the subject. By that, I mean he instinctively gets when to time a comment to maximize its effect while minimizing its impact. It's impressive, for sure.

If you go via Beebe's eight-function model, there's somewhat of an explanation of that "always right" trap. If you're in an oppositional mode, you'll start with oppositional Ne, which will lead you to negatively extrapolate any bit of useful information. Then, if this is challenged, you'd move to your Witch Fi. This function operating within this archetype essentially leads you to believe that "I'm right, because I feel like I'm right, and if you disagree with me, you're wrong." So you'll take an obstinate stand through that Witch Fi, and use oppositional Ne to justify that stand, even though Ni would recognize those arguments as ultimately irrelevant, and Fe would disapprove of the social damage that results.
 

InvisibleJim

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Should the question be 'Why do xNxJs SOUND like they THINK they are right all the time'?

Short Answer: Parental Je and it's not exclusively an xNxJ trait.
 

Mal12345

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So, would you say it's mainly a J thing but it takes different forms in different types based on dominant function, etc?

I guess I had the idea for the thread partly because there seem to be a fair number of INFJs who almost literally believe that Ni gives them magical powers which mean they're never wrong about anyone. I can fall into the "always right" trap too sometimes - though I try to watch for it - but one of the traps I've managed to avoid falling into is thinking that Ni is a superpower. ;)

You mean like the Knights who say Ni?
 

Rasofy

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I think the J's need of consistency makes it harder for them to accept concepts that clash with the ones they currently have.
While Si strives for consistency within their sensory database, Ni does the same with their perceived patterns database.
Ime, both Si and Ni can make them more vulnerable to rationalization when they are wrong.
In psychology and logic, rationalization (or making excuses) is a defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner to avoid the true explanation. It often involves ad hoc hypothesizing. This process ranges from fully conscious (e.g. to present an external defense against ridicule from others) to mostly subconscious (e.g. to create a block against internal feelings of guilt).
People rationalize for various reasons. Often it is to differentiate from the original deterministic explanation, of the behavior or feeling in question. Sometimes this occurs when we think we know ourselves better than we do. It is also an informal fallacy of reasoning.
 

Starry

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IDK. I score high on Ni…to the point where I will sometimes test as INFJ (I am very much an ENFP though). But I consistently come out Ne>Ni>Fi or Ni>Ne>Fi and I definitely have issues with ‘magical powers thinking’…especially with regards to people. And while I understand what onemoretime is saying…I honestly do not feel this is due to ‘oppositional Ne’ or ‘witch Fi’ (and I only have Jness in my dreams)…but rather Ni.
 

SilkRoad

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IDK. I score high on Ni…to the point where I will sometimes test as INFJ (I am very much an ENFP though). But I consistently come out Ne>Ni>Fi or Ni>Ne>Fi and I definitely have issues with ‘magical powers thinking’…especially with regards to people. And while I understand what onemoretime is saying…I honestly do not feel this is due to ‘oppositional Ne’ or ‘witch Fi’ (and I only have Jness in my dreams)…but rather Ni.


When you say you have "issues" with "magical powers thinking", do you mean that you do tend to find yourself thinking that you are always right about people and their motivations?

Thing is, I'm sure that Ni does give many INFJs a good read on people and their motivations. In my case I think sometimes I should give myself MORE credit for my insight, not less. (Perhaps this has partly to do with Fe being particularly useful in my life, and being a relatively "ISFJ" kind of INFJ - in contrast to a lot of INFJs who are more "INTJ"-type INFJs.)

Also, I am almost sure I'm a type 6 enneagram, and due to the whole uncertain/anxious/questioning thing, I think I'm less likely to be that confident in what my Ni is telling me.

But the fact is...whenever I have met someone in person who says "I'm always right about people", they're seriously lacking in self-awareness, they seem insecure, and their comments about others makes me think they're more often than not way off the mark!

The ones who DO tend to be mostly right about others admit that they're sometimes/often wrong, and are fairly low-key and self-deprecating about the whole thing.

I don't know anything about Beebe's eight-function model, guess I should look that up...
 

skylights

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:rofl1: i make fun of an ENFJ friend allll the time for his "always rightness".

two thoughts:
1. NJs are careful foreplanners. you guys look down the line at probabilities more than at possibilities.
2. NJs tend not to speak about things they are unsure of
=
usually "right"
 

SilkRoad

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:rofl1: i make fun of an ENFJ friend allll the time for his "always rightness".

two thoughts:
1. NJs are careful foreplanners. you guys look down the line at probabilities more than at possibilities.
2. NJs tend not to speak about things they are unsure of
=
usually "right"

Maybe we are right a lot. ;) But no one is right always.

Maybe it's more about the attitude than anything else. It puts my back up when anyone says they're right about something/someone all the time. If you say "I'm always right about people", I will pretty much automatically assume that you tend to be wrong about people, and you're kind of annoying to boot. ;)
 

Starry

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When you say you have "issues" with "magical powers thinking", do you mean that you do tend to find yourself thinking that you are always right about people and their motivations?

Yes, yes, yes. Sorry I didn’t make that clear in my post. Yes, it is embarrassing to admit as I have grown to really dislike this about myself…but I would/will get a strong sense (magical powers thinking) that I completely understand another person (or interpersonal situation or theory or what have you)…along with their intentions and motivations. And yes, I would/will believe I am 100% right.

But the fact is...whenever I have met someone in person who says "I'm always right about people", they're seriously lacking in self-awareness, they seem insecure, and their comments about others makes me think they're more often than not way off the mark!

You are so right here. Well, I mean, I never said out-loud ‘I’m always right about people’…but that is basically what I have felt internally. Still do sometimes but I am trying very hard to see things in a new way. And yes, I do think it has stemmed from my own lack of self-awareness and insecurity.

It is a difficult thing for me to put into words…and I know I won’t be able to phrase this properly…but I think Ni is often ‘right’ (very insightful)…or ‘right’ often enough so that the risk is great - an individual can, perhaps unknowingly, become a little too confident in their own ‘system’. The problem is…is like you said ‘no one is always right’.

One difference I noticed with regards to myself and xNxJ friends & colleagues…is that I was never (or at least as) attached to trying to convince others of my ‘rightness’ (is that a J thing?)…but like I said above…internally I believed I was ‘right’…and I feel like it has been very isolating and limiting in my life. Again, I am working very hard to change this in me. I am trying to see things as…yes…I am insightful…but I am open. What is that quote? True wisdom comes from knowing you know nothing?
 

Giggly

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I love INFJs so if INFJs want to be right, then so shall they be right. (yes i'm being irrational and biased)

INTJs....meh, they have some work to do.
 

IZthe411

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I think it's an FJ thing to assert their rightness about people. I know both NFJs and SFJs who say they 'knew' xyz about someone. Not that they made any kind of explicit prediction. Somewhere in their mind the XYZ outcome was a possibility, so when it happens they blurt out 'I knew it!".

You don't see that much in TJs. Maybe in non-people related stuff, but most could care less about the people aspect of things.
 

skylights

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Maybe we are right a lot. ;) But no one is right always.

Maybe it's more about the attitude than anything else. It puts my back up when anyone says they're right about something/someone all the time. If you say "I'm always right about people", I will pretty much automatically assume that you tend to be wrong about people, and you're kind of annoying to boot. ;)

hahahaha good point.

he is e3 though and a self-diagnosed show off and he likes it. ;)
 

Coriolis

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Maybe it's more about the attitude than anything else. It puts my back up when anyone says they're right about something/someone all the time. If you say "I'm always right about people", I will pretty much automatically assume that you tend to be wrong about people, and you're kind of annoying to boot. ;)
Anyone of any type who claims to be right all the time is deluding themselves. As you point out, it is often more about attitude. It is said that INTJs know what we know, and know what we don't know. If I realize I am ignorant about something, or can't support my conclusions yet, I will not speak up. When I do speak up, then, it is usually means I do know what I am talking about and have a good chance of being right. I won't state this explicitly, but I'm sure it comes across in my attitude. Even then, I know there is a chance I may be wrong. In fact, I associate almost a confidence level to my conclusions, and if it is too low, I will either say nothing, or qualify my statement accordingly.
 

NiteSite

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:yes: but I am always right.

Those who claim to always be right about anything, make me very wary. When you've mastered something, you've gone through the hardships and mistakes that it took for you to understand situations and extrapolate on new ones. Logically and realistically, being always right is very implausible.
 

OrangeAppled

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Yeah, I've noticed that many Js always think they are right, focusing on their impressions of what is most probable. To them, it's silly to consider the seemingly far-fetched possibilities that Ps will entertain (and yes, I include SPs, who simply do this experimenting with possibilities in the concrete realm, which can seem less far-fetched than NPs, but nevertheless....).

But Ps are know-it-alls, because we've sought out so much info, considered all of its implications, and then concluded that there is no one right conclusion. Instead of claiming rightness we simply claim a more thorough understanding, which also means we may think it's silly to claim you're right, at least with what appears to be limited information.
 

rav3n

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Right and wrong are subjective so as far as my perception goes, I'm "right". This doesn't mean that other people can't be "right" according to their perception. That's why it's cool to agree to disagree since there aren't very many, if any universal truths.

E - As a way to visualise the above concept, imagine a bank of clouds. One person sees clouds, another perceives dragons and another, the mechanism for rain. None are wrong and all are right, according to their perception.
 
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