[MBTI General] ENFPs pwn INTPs

[SillySapienne]

Ok, but why get angry? Where does that emotion come from? What is it's purpose?

I think AvereX explained it quite nicely, I agree with his description.

When I see someone getting hurt, it hurts me, and when I see someone get intentionally hurt by someone else, it angers me.

I hate bullies, bullying, and "meanness". These things anger me to no end! GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

 

[Thursday]

have we already stated that emotional iq takes part in being more level headed
or more rational about things, cuz we all get upset sometimes
even if just a little


as Ms.LeChique just said

I *know* when I am being incoherent, thank you very much.

and to do so,
we can prevent ourselves from doing something hurtful to ourselves and others
at least ideally

 

[nemo]

I used to think I was super logical until I became a math major. INTPs pwn me, hard.

I don't really know what definition of logic people are using here, so I'm not sure how well I've followed this thread.

But I don't see why there'd by any controversy to an ENFP being logical. I think the NT-NF difference isn't so much the use or utility of their logic, but rather how it's internalized.

Actually, In many ways I think proper use of logic is more a function of intelligence/education than anything else.

Logic is an important step in justifying yourself, but I almost never put it at the front of my thought process. Whenever I try to, it destroys my creativity and imagination.

But again, I've been gone all day so I'm not totally sure WTF is going on.

I will cross-post this from nightning's blog:

LOGIC, n.
The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding. The basic of logic is the syllogism, consisting of a major and a minor premise and a conclusion -- thus:
Major Premise: Sixty men can do a piece of work sixty times as quickly as one man.

Minor Premise: One man can dig a posthole in sixty seconds; therefore --

Conclusion: Sixty men can dig a posthole in one second.

This may be called the syllogism arithmetical, in which, by combining logic and mathematics, we obtain a double certainty and are twice blessed.

 

[Lateralus]

I used to think I was super logical until I became a math major. INTPs pwn me, hard.

I don't really know what definition of logic people are using here, so I'm not sure how well I've followed this thread.

But I don't see why there'd by any controversy to an ENFP being logical. I think the NT-NF difference isn't so much the use or utility of their logic, but rather how it's internalized.

Actually, In many ways I think proper use of logic is more a function of intelligence/education than anything else.

Are you trying to say that smart people are more rational than dumb people?

 

[nemo]

Are you trying to say that smart people are more rational than dumb people?

I think smart people "properly use logic" more than dumb people (reread my post).

I won't directly answer your question until you define "rational." I sense a trap (Admiral Ackbar and everything) involving some weird definition of rationality.

 

[Lateralus]

Are you saying I'm trying to twist the meaning of your words? That's preposterous.

 

[SillySapienne]

have we already stated that emotional iq takes part in being more level headed
or more rational about things, cuz we all get upset sometimes
even if just a little

Surprisingly, no, we haven't.

Having a high EQ is a salient feature of ENFPs, and many NFs I'd presume. And by having a high EQ, you are absolutely right, "we can prevent ourselves from doing something hurtful to ourselves and others."

edit: there are other ways to arrive at this end, however.

 

[Thursday]

Surprisingly, no, we haven't.

Having a high EQ is a salient feature of ENFPs, and many NFs I'd presume. And by having a high EQ, you are absolutely right, "we can prevent ourselves from doing something hurtful to ourselves and others."

edit: there are other ways to arrive at this end, however.

if only some of us could see past our own perspective
well,
more than the 20 people that consistently do

I used to live in a room full of mirrors; all I could see was me. I take my spirit and I crash my mirrors, now the whole world is here for me to see.

EDIT :

and you are home when you say that such an end can be reached via several paths
just as each type is capable of being ______, but from their xxxx approach,
cuz we all interpret the same things, in seemingly different ways

 

[Lateralus]

enfp's avoid conflict at all costs........... even online. They also have a lot of tact and diplomacy

Avoid conflict at all costs? I disagree with that. Avoid unnecessary conflict at all costs, maybe.

 

[SillySapienne]

Yeah, I am very confrontational by nature, granted, not with everything, lol.

 

[Thursday]

Avoid conflict at all costs? I disagree with that. Avoid unnecessary conflict at all costs, maybe.

that seems like either an F thing,
or just a healthy person's principle
T's like to discuss ideas, and even argue their point; perfectly rational

but when it becomes tyranny vs. tyranny
or in an F's case, manipulation/ victim mentality vs. poor unsuspecting soul
irrational behavior is at hand, or afoot

 

[Lateralus]

that seems like either an F thing,
or just a healthy person's principle
T's like to discuss ideas, and even argue their point; perfectly rational

but when it becomes tyranny vs. tyranny
or in an F's case, manipulation/ victim mentality vs. poor unsuspecting soul
irrational behavior is at hand, or afoot

Maybe I'm not an F then. I find it both amusing and annoying when a 'poor unsuspecting soul' is manipulated.

What is deemed 'necessary' is obviously subjective, but everyone has a point where they'll find conflict to be necessary.

 

[Thursday]

Maybe I'm not an F then. I find it both amusing and annoying when a 'poor unsuspecting soul' is manipulated.

What is deemed 'necessary' is obviously subjective, but everyone has a point where they'll find conflict to be necessary.

yep
what we think and what is are twain different sometimes

 

[shum]

k. for the past couple of days i have been corresponding via email with my ex-landlord who is a real jerk.
i have to make an intensely concentrated effort to be careful of what i say to him.

what i really want to do is bombard him with all my feelings about his wrongdoings against me. it feels right to me to express my anger and hurt. like screw having to prove that i am right, just saying my piece is enough for my ego and soul. and maybe that will make him see the error of his ways since i would be standing my ground by remaining genuine to my instincts. like he is going to re-think his view of the situation since i feel sooo strongly that i am right.

that is never going to happen.

i cant let my feelings rule me in this. they will have no affect on him, at least not in a way that is beneficial to his opinion of me. i need to prove that i am right with facts and figures, just being righteous is not enough.

often i can accept my own irrational behaviour with the excuse that "it felt right". but this time i cant cloud reason with my emotions. and it is so hard for me to put my feelings aside and act rationally.



oh yeah and targo is definitely an enfp.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

A: Your definition of logic is wrong.
B: Logic is only a system.
C: Systems can only produce correct outcomes if they have adequate inputs.
D: I have never suggested that logic is "physical". It is an abstract system.

Therefore, logic is subjective, because it is a system, and a system is only as good as the people who us it, and people are subjective entities.

This is one favorite idea of the weakly logical. Unable to study the logic in question, they can't find where the fault is, and blame an erroneous outcome randomly on both the process and the person. I'm sorry if you can't do any better.

 

[alcea rosea]

I have been said to be logical by INTP so that should prove it!

See, I too agree that I am a feeler primarily, but things that feel right to me, are rational, and end up being logical as well.

Things inherently make sense to me, and sometimes, depending on my mood, I'll choose to logically explain my self, and sometimes I can't be bothered to take the time to linearly explain myself.

Whereas logicians will suffer through each and every step, I am comfortable at, and with, skipping a few.

My math teachers/profs *hated* the way I solved many of my math problems, skipping steps, yet still managing to arrive at the correct answer.

Excellent post!
I can be logical too but most of time I'm just random because I just am. I think being logical is a bit boring and too time consuming and tiring. And when my mood is not right I really cannot be logical. I'm not primarily logical.

I was very similar in math. I came up with the right solution but I didn't always know how I knew it.

N dominants aren't rational. N's are, by their nature, not rational, since they are not realists.

According to theory N is irrational function.

Well... being ENFP does not imply being emotional (which implies excess).

Yes, according to the MBTI theory F refers to evaluating events and circumstances according to values. So, F is not about being emotional, it's just making decisions based on your values and importance of things.

 

[alcea rosea]

enfp's avoid conflict at all costs........... even online. They also have a lot of tact and diplomacy

just sayin take it as you will remembering I am an older enfp

I think it's mostly due to the age of ENFP.
I have certainly been more argumentative when I was younger. I was living my Te development.
These days I'm pretty much what Trago describes, 99% times avoiding conflict.

I was wondering is it more difficult than normally for ENFP accept/believe that others who claim to be ENFP's are really ENFP's? Are ENFP's suspicious by nature?

 

[Kiddo]

This is one favorite idea of the weakly logical. Unable to study the logic in question, they can't find where the fault is, and blame an erroneous outcome randomly on both the process and the person. I'm sorry if you can't do any better.

So are ad hominems a sign of the strongly logical?

I'm assuming from the tone of your post that your argument is because of my "weak logic" I am incapable of understanding logic. It seems more like a personal attack than a logical claim.

 

[nemo]

CC is definitely an ENFP. I know because of my stalkings.

 

[SillySapienne]

^ nemo

And targo really didn't catch the fact that I was being ironic.

She was being confrontational, i.e. addressing conflict, in her post while accusing me of being confrontational, while asserting that such a trait is *not* exhibited by ENFPs.

And for anyone who doubts my type, go right ahead, I think it's cute.

:rolli: